[NTLUG:Discuss] List Status

[Steve Baker]

Mark Bickel wrote:

> Yes! I agree. Perhaps there is a thought that a separate "help" list would
> actually result in more questions answered, problems solved. I seriously
> doubt that would be the result.

No - I don't think that would happen either - but then it wasn't my
motivation to suggest a split.

> 1) The discuss list is not so busy that it warrants being split up.

Well, that's not the issue - on days when I have a lot of mail to
read and not much time, I'd like to be able to simply dump the NTLUG-help
messages in the certain knowledge that I wouldn't miss an important
announcement such as a cancelled meeting or something.

> 2) For those who want to filter out "please help me set up ___" questions,
>    that's what a mail filter is for after all. Chris Browne presented on
>    internet data filtering back in Oct. 97, perhaps it would be a good
>    topic for revisitation, for those who don't know how and want to learn.

I don't think it's possible to construct a filter that clever enough to
reliably avoid trashing the occasional important email - whilst still
removing a majority of the unwanted stuff.  Unless of course there is
a convention that every message should contain some kind of magic string
if it's a help request.  It's much easier to do the filtering if the
messages come from different lists.

To take your example:

    "Will someone please help me set up the computers at our
    meeting next month."

...would probably be filtered out by anything looking to reject...

    "Will someone please help me set up Samba on my SuSE Linux
    machine - I don't understand option XYZ."

...but if each goes to a mailing list of appropriate content, anyone
can split off the two groups with ease.

> 3) NTLUG is a VOLUNTEER organization. That means if people don't pitch in
>    it doesn't get done. If you consider yourself a member of NTLUG, I assume
>    that means you feel that NTLUG has value for you - i.e. you have benefitted
>    from the efforts of other NTLUG members. Take time to give something back.
>    If someone has posted a question, and you know something about the subject,
>    please take the time to consider whether you might have something useful to
>    contribute to the thread; If you do: reply!

Well, I agree somewhat with this - but I give my time to answering questions
for the wider Linux community - and when I ask a question, I try to direct it
at a Linux list where there is a concentration of appropriate knowledge.

Email makes distance irrelevent.  Hence a mailing list that answers questions
on the basis mainly of geographic locality is something of an oddity.  In
fact, there are some lists where the very spread of the membership across
time zones makes for better service because even at 3am, there is still
someone in Europe who has just turned on his computer and started reading
email.

Directing questions appropriately is much more productive for all concerned.
Rather than firing a question off to a few hundred people whose only common
factor is running Linux and living in North Texas, I fire it at a list of
perhaps 50 people all of whom have a detailed knowledge and interest in
the specific niche into which my question falls.

NTLUG certainly is a volunteer organization - but where that counts (IMHO) is
in cases where that geographic commonality matters.  That means meetings,
special events, face-to-face stuff.  I'd like to see that role expanded
upon and discussed in more detail.

However, I can tell that a lot of people don't feel that way and somehow
feel more comfortable asking this particular community a question even
though they'd get a better answer by sending the question to a more
focussed forum.

Hence, I suggested splitting off the 'helpline' mail for those people
and preserving some kind of an NTLUG-specific list for people who
simply want the more focussed local discussions.  This seems to have
no negatives for anyone.  People who like things how they are now
simply subscribe to both lists (and remember to post to the correct
one depending on what they are asking) - and nothing much will change.
People (like me) who prefer to avoid threads that are statistically
unlikely to interest them can simply not subscribe to them - or (as
I might) choose to read them at some lower priority.

I don't want to be seen as anti-community - I have frequently gone
out of my way to suggest things we might do as a group - I presented
a paper at a meeting last year - and dragged my computer in for the
NTLUG Fair thingy.  Those are the things that make NTLUG worthwhile
for me - and I would like to see them expanded with more face-to-face
opportunities for members.

People who are new to Linux - especially - should be aware that if
you have a question about a specific package then you'll get a faster,
more accurate answer by sending it either to the author of the package
or to the specific mailing list for that package (if there is one).
Preferably the latter.  There is another important reason to do this
and that is that the author of a package needs to know what things
are hard to understand, what things need changing, where the
documentation is lacking and so on.  Your questions can help him or
her to get that stuff right.  If you post them to other mailing lists
like NTLUG-discuss, you are doing a (small) disservice to the author.

> 4) There are perhaps many subscribers of discuss who would not subscribe or
>    read a separate "help" list, but will answer the occasional question if they
>    happen upon it while reading "discuss".

If that's what they want to do, why wouldn't they subscribe to the help list?

> 5) NTLUG is all about YOUR participation.

Absolutely - I just want to focus on our strengths and cut out some of the
200+ emails I get every day.

Well, I think this thread is long enough now - I've stated my position,
I'm going to call it quits at this point.

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjbaker1 at airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sjbaker at hti.com      (work)