From cbbrowne at hex.net  Mon Jul 31 21:55:34 2000
From: cbbrowne at hex.net (Christopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:55:34 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Korn Shell 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:46:18 EST."
             <3984860A.AD1DE1C7@gte.net> 
Message-ID: <20000801025534.416091B667@hex.net>

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:46:18 EST, the world broke into rejoicing as
Kevin Brannen <kbrannen at gte.net>  said:
> cbbrowne at dantzig.brownes.org wrote:
> > 
> > On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:47:23 EST, the world broke into rejoicing as
> > Chris Cox <cjcox at acm.org>  said:
> > > Christopher Browne wrote:
> > > >
> > > ...
> > > > Doesn't it include Korn Shell?  I thought that /bin/ksh had gotten pret
ty
> > > > ubiquitous by now, and it's a fair bit more functional than Original
> > > > Bourne Shell.
> > 
> > If it's ubiquitous on anything for which service contracts are still
> > available, that's good enough for me.  :-)
> 
> And if it's not there, you can download the source and put it there yourself.
 
> I think I got it from the AT&T site, IIRC (I can't seem to find a reference i
n
> the README, but surely a good search engine could find it).
> 
> > Yes, but I seem to recall David Korn indicating that the one used on NT
> > isn't very good.  [I also seem to recall this implementation being the
> > MKS one, which is disappointing, because I knew some of the MKS folks,
> > and would regard them as being _pretty good_ in implementing Unix
> > functionality on all sorts of platforms...]
> > --
> 
> I remember a story coming out some time back about a MS person describing the
y
> had a KSH implementation and how good it was, at some conference.  Then a guy
> in the back of the room stood up and started disagreeing with him on how it
> wasn't implemented very well, had some feature wrong, etc.  The obvious
> happened and it escalated.  Finally, a person went up to the guy on the stage
> and pointed out to him that the person at the back of the room that he was
> arguing with was David Korn (who did know what he was talking about). 
> [Supposedly it's a real story.]

Yes, it has been quoted in enough moderately credible places that it
_does_ appear likely that it is true.

<LI><a href="http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt98/ntnix.html">USENIX ;login: - NTnix 98... You Are There</a>
<LI><a href="http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~plug/mail_archive/9808/0155.html">plug.9808: A must-read for all who appreciate microsoft</a>
<LI><a href="http://boudicca.tux.org/mhonarc/ma-linux/1998/1998-Aug/0808.html">Mid-Atlantic Linux Mailing Lists, Archives by Month: (fwd) FWD: MS</a>

Apparently my recollection was right; it _was_ MKS's tool set that David
Korn was rather critical of...
--
cbbrowne at hex.net - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
"Using Java  as a general purpose application  development language is
like  going big  game  hunting  armed with  Nerf  weapons." 
-- Author Unknown



From hrothgar at endor.hsutx.edu  Tue Aug  1 00:25:45 2000
From: hrothgar at endor.hsutx.edu (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 00:25:45 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] python (was: hardlinks)
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net>; from j@dalwan.net on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:38:26PM -0500
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net>
Message-ID: <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu>

* j at dalwan.net [2000.07.28 12:41]:
: I'm still having problems with python and the mailman list manager.
: 
: Somehow security on my box is set so that hardlinks are either restricted 
: or turned off.
: 
: Here is a log snip
: 
: Jul 24 15:10:00 ns kernel: Security: denied hard link to 543.544 for UID 
: 99, EUID 99, process python:1000
: <snip/>
: 
: Jay Urish

don't know if you've fixed this yet or not, but i found a solution.

the short answer is to run `DrakConf` as root and change the security
level.  easy but not much of a brain buffet.

if you really want to have fun, check out /etc/security/msec/ and the
security script /usr/sbin/draksec.  heck check out all the files in the
DrakConf and drakxtools packages.  8)

anyway, hopefully this will fix you prob.
--
cameron
  [ Should crematoriums give discounts to burn victims? ]



From pac at fortuitous.com  Wed Aug  2 23:14:26 2000
From: pac at fortuitous.com (Phil Carinhas)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:14:26 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Training.
In-Reply-To: <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu>; from hrothgar@endor.hsutx.edu on Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 12:25:45AM -0500
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net> <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu>
Message-ID: <20000802231426.A18221@astro.marx>

 Hi all,

   I just joined the list and wanted to say hi, and introduce my
  Linux business. We do Linux training and consulting. We offer
  training services to hardware/software vendors who want or need
  to sell training as part of a package. Please keep us in mind
  if you see anything like that...   www.fortuitous.com

  Has anyone seen Linux making inroads in the school system?
  Most school districts are still trying to teach NT/98.. Go figure.

  August is quiet.............

  -Phil C.
.---------------------------------------------------------
| Dr. P. A. Carinhas           |  pac at fortuitous.com      |
| Fortuitous Technologies Inc. |  http://fortuitous.com   |
| Linux Training Services      |  Tel : 1-512 467-2154    |
| Contract, In-house, & Onsite |  800 : 1-877 467-2154    |
 ---------------------------------------------------------



From Mark.Bickel at ericsson.com  Thu Aug  3 08:45:02 2000
From: Mark.Bickel at ericsson.com (Mark Bickel)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 08:45:02 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Training.
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net> <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu> <20000802231426.A18221@astro.marx>
Message-ID: <3989775E.C24B01EA@ericsson.com>

Phil Carinhas wrote:

>   Has anyone seen Linux making inroads in the school system?
>   Most school districts are still trying to teach NT/98.. Go figure.

Several of our members are in some way ivolved in using Linux
in education. I have been involved in Collin Co. Comm. College
http://www.ccccd.edu Computer Networking Technology program for
the past three years. They have lots of courses geared towards 
MSCE certification (earlier it was more Novell CNA & CNE stuff).

This fall the CNWT dept. is offering its first Linux course. They
still haven't decided on a certification track yet. I am lobbying
them to go the LPI route rather than RHCE (RedHat). Still, it's
encouraging. 

The Cisco Academy courses are taught as well, prepping those who
seek CCNA & CCNP certs. In the cisco labs we have a bunch of Linux
and BSD boxen serving as routers, tftp servers, etc. One advantage
of Linux here is the ability to create/simulate larger networks
with non-cisco routers running RIP, OSPF. etc. This definitely 
stretches the budget dollars vs. having to buy all cisco equipment.

Also, they have courses geared towards prepping for CompTIA A+ 
cert. for PC repair. CompTIA is revising their cert. exams to 
include Linux as an optional OS. So CCCC is teaching some Linux
in those courses as well. They also teach some Linux now in their
CompSci UNIX courses.

Mark.Bickel at ericsson.com
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From pac at fortuitous.com  Thu Aug  3 16:28:14 2000
From: pac at fortuitous.com (Phil Carinhas)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:28:14 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Training.
In-Reply-To: <3989775E.C24B01EA@ericsson.com>; from Mark.Bickel@ericsson.com on Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:45:02AM -0500
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net> <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu> <20000802231426.A18221@astro.marx> <3989775E.C24B01EA@ericsson.com>
Message-ID: <20000803162814.A21681@astro.marx>

On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:45:02AM -0500, Mark Bickel wrote:
> Phil Carinhas wrote:
> 
> >   Has anyone seen Linux making inroads in the school system?
> >   Most school districts are still trying to teach NT/98.. Go figure.
> 
> Several of our members are in some way ivolved in using Linux
> in education. I have been involved in Collin Co. Comm. College
> http://www.ccccd.edu Computer Networking Technology program for
> the past three years. They have lots of courses geared towards 
> MSCE certification (earlier it was more Novell CNA & CNE stuff).
> 
> This fall the CNWT dept. is offering its first Linux course. They
> still haven't decided on a certification track yet. I am lobbying
> them to go the LPI route rather than RHCE (RedHat). Still, it's
> encouraging. 
 
  Great info. Seems Linux seeping its way into the 
  edu world, albeit slower than I'd hoped. 

  Just out of curiosity,
  what are folks using to write course materials in? I'm stuck on Latex
  but I'd much rather be using Docbook, espeicially since the
  Latex macros don't get translated well in Latex2html.

  BTW, bookpool.com has the best prices for many tech books online.
   Especially the O'reilly ones..

  Is anyone going to the Linuxworld Expo? 
  
  -Phil C.
.---------------------------------------------------------
| Dr. P. A. Carinhas           |  pac at fortuitous.com      |
| Fortuitous Technologies Inc. |  http://fortuitous.com   |
| Linux Training Services      |  Tel : 1-512 467-2154    |
| Contract, In-house, & Onsite |  800 : 1-877 467-2154    |
 ---------------------------------------------------------



From llliiilll at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  4 00:55:07 2000
From: llliiilll at hotmail.com (m m)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 05:55:07 GMT
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Does anyone succeed install qmail?
Message-ID: <F64mfnXAnk74TlMCr2c000020d8@hotmail.com>

Hi all:
Just wonder if there anyone succeed install qmail (should be a lot)?
I try to install qmail by following the qmail HOWTO, never succeed!
don't know what is wrong.
the probem is
when I try to start qmail, it should this message:

svc: warning: unable to control /var/qmail/supervise/amail-send: file does 
not exist
svc: warning: unable to control /var/qmail/supervise/amail-send/log: file 
does not exist
svc: warning: unable to control /var/qmail/supervise/amail-smtpd: file does 
not exist
svc: warning: unable to control /var/qmail/supervise/amail-smtpd/log: file 
does not exist

in fact, there are 'run' files in each directory, and the permisson is set 
to 755

here is the qmail script file:

#!/bin/sh -e
PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin:/usr/qmail/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
export PATH

case "$1" in
	start)
	svc -u /var/qmail/supervise/*
	svc -u /var/qmail/supervise/*/log
	;;
	stop)
	...

one of the 'run' files:

#!/bin/sh
exec /var/qmail/rc

(just two lines)

any suggestion?
TIA

jc





















________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com




From lee at brave.com  Fri Aug  4 06:36:26 2000
From: lee at brave.com (lee)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 06:36:26 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Does anyone succeed install qmail?
References: <F64mfnXAnk74TlMCr2c000020d8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <398AAABA.D0C78A31@brave.com>

qmail worked for me just fine, had a little bit of problems with the
supervise thing myself... i forget exactly what the problem was and what
i did to fix it, but it runs for me now.  yes, i used the qmail HOWTO,
installed from .tar not .rpm.

you might want to check some of your configuration files, see below:

m m wrote:

> svc: warning: unable to control /var/qmail/supervise/amail-send: file does
                                                       ^^^^^
                                                       ^^^^^
                                                       ^^^^^

looks to me that somewhere you have a typo, that should probably be
qmail-send instead of amail-send.

perhaps something is amiss in your
/var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send/log/run and/or qmail-smtp/log/run
scripts?


-- lee



From syarus at dallas.beasys.com  Fri Aug  4 10:23:46 2000
From: syarus at dallas.beasys.com (Stuart Yarus)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:23:46 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] networking
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000804102346.00a29830@dallas.beasys.com>

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
and the bus is interrupted and the interrupt's not caught,
then the socket packet pocket has an error to report.

- with thanks to Peter van der Linden, and
- apologies to Danny Kaye and MGM



Stuart Yarus
BEA Systems, Inc. 			voice:	+1 972-943-5041
4965 Preston Park Blvd.		fax:	+1 972-943-5111
Suite 500				email:	syarus at beasys.com
Plano, Texas 75093-5150		WWW:	http://www.beasys.com/



From cachemonet at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  4 16:42:41 2000
From: cachemonet at yahoo.com (Shel Johnson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. My
question is:
What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



From wabbit at tvec.net  Fri Aug  4 16:50:38 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:50:38 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com>; from cachemonet@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 16:42:41 -0500
References: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20000804165038.B13414@Githyanki>

Noo!! not a distro war. Everyone has favorite. it may take you 3 or four to find yours. I ended up on Debian, but I dont think it is a great choice for beginers. It sets up too many network services, makes your computer very vulnerable untill properly configured. But, so do a lot of distros.
	Best part is it is VERY easy to install stuff, it will do all dependencys for you if you use deb installation method. Dont think rpm's are that friendly, but I never tried very hard :) Bad part is, the New release isnt ready yet. they wait a very long time to call something stable, so you can install from internet, since there are no CD iso's yet.

www.debian.org

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 16:42:41 Shel Johnson wrote:
> I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. My
> question is:
> What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...
> 
> =====
> Shel
> cachemonet at yahoo.com
> ICQ- 23454126
> AIM- CacheMonet
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From Alex.Coker at ipaper.com  Fri Aug  4 17:03:29 2000
From: Alex.Coker at ipaper.com (Alex Coker)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:03:29 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <OF63CB80B4.5FC85C04-ON86256931.00792499@ipaper.com>

COREL Linux OS




Shel Johnson <cachemonet at yahoo.com>@ntlug.org on 08/04/2000 04:42:41 PM

Please respond to discuss at ntlug.org

Sent by:  discuss-admin at ntlug.org



To:   NTLUG <discuss at ntlug.org>
cc:
Subject:  [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.


I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. My
question is:
What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

_______________________________________________
http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss






From krazykritter at kozykingdom.com  Fri Aug  4 17:27:47 2000
From: krazykritter at kozykingdom.com (Matthew "Krazy Kritter")
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:27:47 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] PowerPC
References: <OF63CB80B4.5FC85C04-ON86256931.00792499@ipaper.com>
Message-ID: <018801bffe63$3ce8a440$1bbe2ece@gte.net>

Other than Suse are there other distros that will run on this? Anyone have
experience running it? I got a PowerPC 7100/80 from a friend rather than
letting her trashing it figured it could fun playing with at least, but
ultimately I'd like to use it as a masq and firewall at home....

Matthew "Krazy Kritter"

Kozy Kingdom http://kozykingdom.com
DFWPUG http://dfwpug.org
ICQ:279754 Yahoo!:KrazyKritter AIM:KrazyKritterKK

http://signature.coola.com/?krazykritter at kozykingdom.com






From sjbaker1 at airmail.net  Fri Aug  4 18:09:36 2000
From: sjbaker1 at airmail.net (Steve Baker)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:09:36 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <398B4D30.64D6D733@airmail.net>

Shel Johnson wrote:
> 
> I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. My
> question is:
> What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...

This is one of those religious issues that'll cause endless flamage on
some mailing lists (probably not on this one).  So, this is *my* opinion
and I'm sure you'll hear lots of others...

So: IMHO...

I used to say "RedHat" - but since SuSE started adding their QuickStart
manual into the boxed set, I have to give the prize to them.

So - if you are in a hurry, get SuSE 6.4 - if you can wait a week until
they start appearing, SuSE 7.0 aparrently just started shipping.

The main deal is with the initial installation - once Linux is installed,
there is little to choose between the distributions...99% of the software
is identical between distro's anyway.  So, another alternative is to come
along to an NTLUG meeting with your computer in the trunk of your car and
let an expert help you through the process right there and then.  Check
the web site for times for the installation group pre-meeting event.

-- 
Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
              WorkEmail: <sjbaker at link.com>
              HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
              Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
                         http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net




From cachemonet at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  4 18:30:41 2000
From: cachemonet at yahoo.com (Shel Johnson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000804233041.24376.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the advice.. BTW, I wasn't attempting to start a 'war', it's
just that I have NO IDEA as to where to start with Linux.. There are so
many choices out there and now I'm confused... :(

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



From wabbit at tvec.net  Fri Aug  4 18:58:33 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:58:33 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <20000804233041.24376.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com>; from cachemonet@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 18:30:41 -0500
References: <20000804233041.24376.qmail@web1704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20000804185833.A604@Githyanki>

It is a hot topic for some, but it is almost ALL personal preference. Like I first said, you may try a few to get what you like. The hardest part is really figuring out what software to use to replace what you used to use. Or just figuring out new ways to do things. 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:30:41 Shel Johnson wrote:
> Thanks for the advice.. BTW, I wasn't attempting to start a 'war', it's
> just that I have NO IDEA as to where to start with Linux.. There are so
> many choices out there and now I'm confused... :(
> 
> =====
> Shel
> cachemonet at yahoo.com
> ICQ- 23454126
> AIM- CacheMonet
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From adcoker at leap4linux.com  Fri Aug  4 18:58:02 2000
From: adcoker at leap4linux.com (Alex D. Coker)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:58:02 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] PowerPC
References: <OF63CB80B4.5FC85C04-ON86256931.00792499@ipaper.com> <018801bffe63$3ce8a440$1bbe2ece@gte.net>
Message-ID: <398B588A.B39A6E38@leap4linux.com>

There is also YellowDog Linux and a Debian version for PPC.


Matthew \"Krazy Kritter\" wrote:

> Other than Suse are there other distros that will run on this? Anyone have
> experience running it? I got a PowerPC 7100/80 from a friend rather than
> letting her trashing it figured it could fun playing with at least, but
> ultimately I'd like to use it as a masq and firewall at home....
>
> Matthew "Krazy Kritter"
>
> Kozy Kingdom http://kozykingdom.com
> DFWPUG http://dfwpug.org
> ICQ:279754 Yahoo!:KrazyKritter AIM:KrazyKritterKK
>
> http://signature.coola.com/?krazykritter at kozykingdom.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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From krazykritter at kozykingdom.com  Fri Aug  4 19:40:41 2000
From: krazykritter at kozykingdom.com (Matthew "Krazy Kritter")
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:40:41 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] PowerPC
References: <OF63CB80B4.5FC85C04-ON86256931.00792499@ipaper.com> <018801bffe63$3ce8a440$1bbe2ece@gte.net> <398B588A.B39A6E38@leap4linux.com>
Message-ID: <026701bffe75$cd8f42d0$1bbe2ece@gte.net>

I've installed Redhat on a Pentium system are there any real differences I
should expect with say a debian installation on a powerpc?

Matthew "Krazy Kritter"

Kozy Kingdom http://kozykingdom.com
DFWPUG http://dfwpug.org
ICQ:279754 Yahoo!:KrazyKritter AIM:KrazyKritterKK

http://signature.coola.com/?krazykritter at kozykingdom.com





From wabbit at tvec.net  Fri Aug  4 19:44:29 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:44:29 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] PowerPC
In-Reply-To: <026701bffe75$cd8f42d0$1bbe2ece@gte.net>; from krazykritter@kozykingdom.com on Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 19:40:41 -0500
References: <026701bffe75$cd8f42d0$1bbe2ece@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20000804194429.A740@Githyanki>

Couple of articles on linux today about linux on mac (iMac)
http://207.178.22.52/cgi-bin/frames.pl/index.html

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:40:41 Matthew Krazy Kritter" wrote:
> I've installed Redhat on a Pentium system are there any real differences I
> should expect with say a debian installation on a powerpc?
> 
> Matthew "Krazy Kritter"
> 
> Kozy Kingdom http://kozykingdom.com
> DFWPUG http://dfwpug.org
> ICQ:279754 Yahoo!:KrazyKritter AIM:KrazyKritterKK
> 
> http://signature.coola.com/?krazykritter at kozykingdom.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From j at dalwan.net  Fri Aug  4 19:46:44 2000
From: j at dalwan.net (Jay Urish)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:46:44 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000804194635.009e9f00@dalwan.net>

At 04:42 PM 8/4/00 , you wrote:
>I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. My
>question is:
>What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...

Redhat.

Jay Urish
Network Engineer - Dallas Wide Area Networking L.L.C
www.dalwan.net




From sjbaker1 at airmail.net  Fri Aug  4 23:04:39 2000
From: sjbaker1 at airmail.net (Steve Baker)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:04:39 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000804214241.2495.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com> <20000804165038.B13414@Githyanki>
Message-ID: <398B9257.E0320F6D@airmail.net>

Randall Gibson wrote:
> 
> Noo!! not a distro war. Everyone has favorite. it may take you 3 or four to find yours.
> I ended up on Debian, but I dont think it is a great choice for beginers. It sets up too
> many network services, makes your computer very vulnerable untill properly configured.
> But, so do a lot of distros.

> Best part is it is VERY easy to install stuff, it will do all dependencys for you if you
> use deb installation method. Dont think rpm's are that friendly, but I never tried very
> hard :) Bad part is, the New release isnt ready yet. they wait a very long time to call
> something stable, so you can install from internet, since there are no CD iso's yet.

Yes - the other thing about Debian is their rigorous insistance on separating out
software that doesn't fall under a strictly OpenSource license - that can be a minor
inconvenience sometime.

RPM's can be a pain - but SuSE has the 'YAST' installer that hides all that ugliness
in a simple GUI.  (RPM is a widely used file format for program distributions and YAST
is an installer tool BTW).

I started off with Slakware - then Debian, then RedHat and now SuSE.  In each case,
once it's all set up, it's "just Linux".

I like SuSE because it comes on 6 CD-ROMs and has pretty much every program of any
importance right there on the disks.

For example, I got a 'Lego Mindstorms' Robot kit for my birthday (*great* geek fun BTW!)
and all the programming tools to drive the little RCX computer from Linux were
right there on the SuSE 6.4 CD's!   You *could* download them - so any distro would
be fine - but they are multiple megabytes and spread over several different Web
sites and it's really nice to just shove in the CD and run the 'YAST' installer
to set them all up.

But I'm sure there are other distro's that are just as good.

-- 
Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
              WorkEmail: <sjbaker at link.com>
              HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
              Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
                         http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net




From greenglow484 at juno.com  Fri Aug  4 23:16:29 2000
From: greenglow484 at juno.com (greenglow484@juno.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:16:29 -0600
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] networking
Message-ID: <20000804.230505.520.0.greenglow484@juno.com>

Stuart --

Who is Peter van der Linden?  (He's probably some famous *nix name I
ought to know, but don't.)  Anyway, I thought this was pretty clever.

It_is_August, isn't it?  On another LUG Discuss list on which I lurk,
someone yesterday posted (and, they admitted it was "WOT" -- way off
topic), for instructions on how to use a barbecue smoker;  what's more,
the list (Silicon Valley LUG; not a bunch of dummies) had about ten
responses or so.  So.......I guess this_is_the time of year when the
extreme heat fries the brain, somewhat.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty clever. 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:23:46 -0500 Stuart Yarus
<syarus at dallas.beasys.com> writes:
> If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
> and the bus is interrupted and the interrupt's not caught,
> then the socket packet pocket has an error to report.
> 
> - with thanks to Peter van der Linden, and
> - apologies to Danny Kaye and MGM
> 
> 
> 
> Stuart Yarus
> BEA Systems, Inc. 			voice:	+1 
> 972-943-5041
> 4965 Preston Park Blvd.		fax:	+1 972-943-5111
> Suite 
> 500				email:	syarus at beasys.com
> Plano, Texas 
> 75093-5150		WWW:	http://www.beasys.com/

	<snip>

--
  Douglas D. Darnold	Principal/ Attorney
  LAW OFFICES OF DOUGLAS D. DARNOLD <greenglow484 at juno.com>
  P. O. Box 12461	Dallas  Texas 75225-0461	Voice: 214-368-0068
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From greenglow484 at juno.com  Sat Aug  5 00:04:54 2000
From: greenglow484 at juno.com (greenglow484@juno.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:04:54 -0600
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000804.230505.520.1.greenglow484@juno.com>

On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Shel Johnson
<cachemonet at yahoo.com> writes:
> I'm VERY new to Linux.. I've fought my last battle with windoze!!.. 
> My
> question is:
> What is the easiest linux distribution for beginners??...
> 
> =====
> Shel
> cachemonet at yahoo.com

	<snip>

Shel --

Yes, you'll get a variety of opinions.  You'll find that Linux is
inexpensive enough (depending on where you get it, from -0- [download] to
$5 per CD [NTLUG meetings or other places] to $40 or so for a boxed set
at the stores) that you can buy many versions, over time, install a few,
and see which ones_you_like the best.

Presume you're wanting a GUI/ windoze-like graphical desktop, and that
you'll want to use it for desktop apps. -- word processing/ text editing;
webpage design/ websurfing; graphics; spreadsheets; etc.  That's my own
usage.  (Other folks may not use the graphical desktop so much; for
example, if they're running servers, they may just do everything on the
command line; typing all commands; no windoze-like appearance).

I like and am using Mandrake; the latest version, V. 7.1.  Myself, I'm
about a one and 1/2 year-old user of Linux.  I do think Mandrake is just
very attractive; I also think it's very user friendly for a
windoze-similar appearance, and for a newbie like me.  I've tried most of
the major ones except for Debian, I think.

You'll find that Linux desktops have been dividing, broadly speaking
although there are other desktop choices, on either the Gnome or the KDE
desktops.  Some distros have one and not the other.  

Mandrake gives you the option of using both, which I do (So does RedHat,
and SuSE, a German version, and others; of course, they_all_give you the
ability to use either/ both desktops, but I mean that it is a little bit
easier for a newbie, in my opinion, with Mdk, RedHat, SuSE, or maybe
others).  As you experiment, you may find some things you like better in
one desktop, and other stuff for the other one.  Some others, like Corel
and Caldera, when a newbie installs and has their default choices, only
install a single desktop system; a newbie might not easily realize that
there are other choices.

Plus, the latest version of Mandrake has some of the latest graphical
desktop stuff -- the new Version 4 of a basic X-windowing program (to
save space, won't go into the specifics here) and the new "Helix Gnome"
programs which are improvements/ changes to the Gnome desktop.  I am
running these and they are, in my opinion,
an_extremely_good-looking_desktop appearance.

Red Hat is an extremely popular, leading Linux distro.  Mandrake is based
on RHat, has added stuff to it to make it maybe more user friendly.  What
I'm trying to say here is that you still have, underneath it all, the
various programs/ features in a RedHat version, which you can tinker with
to make your own changes to the system.

That last bit -- the ability to tinker -- is a little bit harder for a
newbie on some other versions, I believe.  For example:  Caldera and
Corel are pretty user friendly, but some of the basic stuff might be a
little bit harder (at least for a newbie) to get to; that is, to "get
around" the Caldera or Corel graphical programs, and to try to do it a
different way.  

As you do this, you will help yourself, and you'll benefit, if you learn
as much as you can/ want to, about the underlying command line abilities
of Linux/ Unix.  (Similar to learning a little M$-DOS as you use
Windoze).  When you do this, you will increase your own ability to tinker
with files/ scripts, make changes directly on your own without having to
use a graphical program to make the changes; you'll just understand
better how the OS goes together, and works.  With this in mind, the
"brand" of distro would become more irrelevant.

One other idea;  since Red Hat is fairly major, you might just try it out
first, start learning, and then branch off into some of the other
distros.  And, by the way, at least one book to have handy will help you.
 I did it with a copy of "The no-BS Guide to RedHat Linux 6"; other folks
have used the "Linux for Dummies"; there is a series of great books by
the O'Reilly publishing company; and it seems like everyone has their own
particular favorite.   And, there is a ton of free stuff out on the Net. 
One resource is www.linuxnewbie.org  There are lots of others.

Linux:  not only is it free (as in speech; you can modify it); it's also
free (as in beer) or inexpensive, so you can get diff. versions,
experiment, learn, and, ultimately, make it your own, so to speak.  Enjoy
the ride!  (Fortunately, you have, in my opinion, one of the very best
Linux user groups on the face of the planet --  NTLUG -- here in North
Texas, in which you can get help/ support, make new friends, and learn!)
--
  Douglas D. Darnold	Principal/ Attorney
  LAW OFFICES OF DOUGLAS D. DARNOLD <greenglow484 at juno.com>
  P. O. Box 12461	Dallas  Texas 75225-0461	Voice: 214-368-0068
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From cachemonet at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  5 07:18:45 2000
From: cachemonet at yahoo.com (Shel Johnson)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 05:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000805121845.4669.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the input everyone.. I think I'm gonna try SuSE when version 7
is released.. from what everyone has told me, it's one of the easiest one
to install.. Also, a lot of people are saying that after the installation,
it's all the same under the hood, correct??.. after that, I may have a
look at one of the NTLUG meetings that are shown on the website.. Again,
thanks for the advice!!!

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



From mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug  5 11:18:00 2000
From: mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com (mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 11:18:00 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805121845.4669.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <398C3E38.EA89E272@austin.rr.com>

	Mandrake 7.1 Installs with more of the hardware ready to go.  ie; "no
setup".  I try them all and threw down SuSE when I met Mandrake.  I
almost liked Debian for a while.  It was a love/hate thing.

Mandrake generally sets up the sound and ide-scsi support ide cd burners
without ones knowledge and nobody else does that.  Oh yes, the Scanner
worked instantly too.  And this on 12 different machines in the last few
weeks.

	But they all seem to work the same in command line. 

	I just couldn't let Mandrake escape..	

Shel Johnson wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the input everyone.. I think I'm gonna try SuSE when version 7
> is released.. from what everyone has told me, it's one of the easiest one
> to install.. Also, a lot of people are saying that after the installation,
> it's all the same under the hood, correct??.. after that, I may have a
> look at one of the NTLUG meetings that are shown on the website.. Again,
> thanks for the advice!!!
> 
> =====
> Shel
> cachemonet at yahoo.com
> ICQ- 23454126
> AIM- CacheMonet
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
Michael H. Collins



From cbbrowne at hex.net  Sat Aug  5 09:17:23 2000
From: cbbrowne at hex.net (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:17:23 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 05 Aug 2000 05:18:45 PDT."
             <20000805121845.4669.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <20000805141723.460451B666@hex.net>

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 05:18:45 PDT, the world broke into rejoicing as
Shel Johnson <cachemonet at yahoo.com>  said:
> Thanks for the input everyone.. I think I'm gonna try SuSE when version 7
> is released.. from what everyone has told me, it's one of the easiest one
> to install.. Also, a lot of people are saying that after the installation,
> it's all the same under the hood, correct??.. after that, I may have a
> look at one of the NTLUG meetings that are shown on the website.. Again,
> thanks for the advice!!!

"Under the hood," they all "pluck" from the same source code streams:
--> All use the Linux kernel, of whatever version;
--> All use GCC, of whatever version;
--> All use Perl, of whatever version;
--> All use GNU File Utilities (guess what?) ... of whatever version;

The same is true for any number of additional components, whether
you're talking about Netscape, C libraries, text editors, and such.

Different distributions may happen to pick different versions, based
on what was available when they prepared the release.

The result of this is that while there may be temporary differences
of version, _all_ the distributions are converging towards the latest
versions of the software they all get from common places.  

That speaks to "persistent similarity."  If Caldera and Red Hat's latest
versions use different versions of GCC, that's not a persistent worry, as
both will upgrade in the next year through a common development "stream."

On the other hand, there are also some persistent _differences_, largely
relating to:
a) Installation management, and
b) System management.

The floppy you use to initially boot up the install process for Mandrake
was custom-built by them, and the processes designed for checking out
what hardware you have, and partitioning disks, and getting the install
started, are quite custom to Mandrake.  All the distributions have
somewhat analagous, but _independently developed_, software to manage
the installation process.

Mind you, this should _largely_ only affect you at install time, and
if the system is actually _useful_ you probably aren't reinstalling
all the time, so this area of "persistent difference" may not be
crucially important.

"System management" is the other area where there may be persistent
differences.  That is, the "pretty tools" to help you do things like:
- Managing printers
- Controlling network connections
- Managing other services [ftp server, database server, mail server, ...]
- Installing upgraded versions of software

Red Hat has, for this, a tool called Linuxconf.  Caldera had developed
one called COAS, which is being replaced by Webmin.  I've not seriously
run SuSE or Mandrake; I'm fairly sure they have their own system
administration packages.

This may or may not include "package management" tools; there's quite
a bit of variation in how much sophistication the systems provide in
managing what versions of software are installed on your system.
With Debian-related systems like Corel and StormLinux, it's not at all
difficult to set up automated updates; if you, on a weekly basis, run:
   apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -yy
at some time when an Internet connection is "live," this will pull in
all updates to the stuff you have installed.  Distributions that use RPM
(Red Hat, SuSE, TurboLinux, Caldera, Mandrake) tend not to have quite as
comprehensive a "suite" of package management tools, but as all systems
are works in progress, what was lacking last year isn't necessarily so
lacking now...
--
cbbrowne at ntlug.org - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"It's not  about 'Where do you  want to go today?'";  "It's more like,
'Where am I allowed to go today?'"



From cbbrowne at hex.net  Sat Aug  5 09:17:23 2000
From: cbbrowne at hex.net (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:17:23 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 05 Aug 2000 05:18:45 PDT."
             <20000805121845.4669.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <20000805141723.460451B666@hex.net>

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 05:18:45 PDT, the world broke into rejoicing as
Shel Johnson <cachemonet at yahoo.com>  said:
> Thanks for the input everyone.. I think I'm gonna try SuSE when version 7
> is released.. from what everyone has told me, it's one of the easiest one
> to install.. Also, a lot of people are saying that after the installation,
> it's all the same under the hood, correct??.. after that, I may have a
> look at one of the NTLUG meetings that are shown on the website.. Again,
> thanks for the advice!!!

"Under the hood," they all "pluck" from the same source code streams:
--> All use the Linux kernel, of whatever version;
--> All use GCC, of whatever version;
--> All use Perl, of whatever version;
--> All use GNU File Utilities (guess what?) ... of whatever version;

The same is true for any number of additional components, whether
you're talking about Netscape, C libraries, text editors, and such.

Different distributions may happen to pick different versions, based
on what was available when they prepared the release.

The result of this is that while there may be temporary differences
of version, _all_ the distributions are converging towards the latest
versions of the software they all get from common places.  

That speaks to "persistent similarity."  If Caldera and Red Hat's latest
versions use different versions of GCC, that's not a persistent worry, as
both will upgrade in the next year through a common development "stream."

On the other hand, there are also some persistent _differences_, largely
relating to:
a) Installation management, and
b) System management.

The floppy you use to initially boot up the install process for Mandrake
was custom-built by them, and the processes designed for checking out
what hardware you have, and partitioning disks, and getting the install
started, are quite custom to Mandrake.  All the distributions have
somewhat analagous, but _independently developed_, software to manage
the installation process.

Mind you, this should _largely_ only affect you at install time, and
if the system is actually _useful_ you probably aren't reinstalling
all the time, so this area of "persistent difference" may not be
crucially important.

"System management" is the other area where there may be persistent
differences.  That is, the "pretty tools" to help you do things like:
- Managing printers
- Controlling network connections
- Managing other services [ftp server, database server, mail server, ...]
- Installing upgraded versions of software

Red Hat has, for this, a tool called Linuxconf.  Caldera had developed
one called COAS, which is being replaced by Webmin.  I've not seriously
run SuSE or Mandrake; I'm fairly sure they have their own system
administration packages.

This may or may not include "package management" tools; there's quite
a bit of variation in how much sophistication the systems provide in
managing what versions of software are installed on your system.
With Debian-related systems like Corel and StormLinux, it's not at all
difficult to set up automated updates; if you, on a weekly basis, run:
   apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -yy
at some time when an Internet connection is "live," this will pull in
all updates to the stuff you have installed.  Distributions that use RPM
(Red Hat, SuSE, TurboLinux, Caldera, Mandrake) tend not to have quite as
comprehensive a "suite" of package management tools, but as all systems
are works in progress, what was lacking last year isn't necessarily so
lacking now...
--
cbbrowne at ntlug.org - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"It's not  about 'Where do you  want to go today?'";  "It's more like,
'Where am I allowed to go today?'"



From al_h at technologist.com  Sat Aug  5 10:44:20 2000
From: al_h at technologist.com (al)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 10:44:20 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805121845.4669.qmail@web1701.mail.yahoo.com> <398C3E38.EA89E272@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <398C3654.CCFCB115@technologist.com>

mike wrote:
> 
>         Mandrake 7.1 Installs with more of the hardware ready to go.  ie; "no
> setup".  I try them all and threw down SuSE when I met Mandrake.  I
> almost liked Debian for a while.  It was a love/hate thing.
> 
> Mandrake generally sets up the sound and ide-scsi support ide cd burners
> without ones knowledge and nobody else does that.  Oh yes, the Scanner
> worked instantly too.  And this on 12 different machines in the last few
> weeks.
> 
>         But they all seem to work the same in command line.
> 
>         I just couldn't let Mandrake escape..
> 

Ditto



SuSe has(had?) some idiosyncrasies that limit the rpm binaries you
can choose from, as well as complicating some source compilations,
in my experience anyhow.

SuSe and Mandrake are definitely fully featured, easilly installed
distros for the novice and poweruser alike. I like the integration
in Mandrake.

eyes and ears,
aal



From sjbaker1 at airmail.net  Sat Aug  5 12:41:43 2000
From: sjbaker1 at airmail.net (Steve Baker)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:41:43 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805141723.460451B666@hex.net>
Message-ID: <398C51D7.485EF997@airmail.net>

Christopher Browne wrote:

> "System management" is the other area where there may be persistent
> differences.  That is, the "pretty tools" to help you do things like:
> - Managing printers
> - Controlling network connections
> - Managing other services [ftp server, database server, mail server, ...]
> - Installing upgraded versions of software

I learned to use the command-line tools (or hand editing the config files) -
so these things also seem identical across distro's as far as I'm concerned.
 
> Red Hat has, for this, a tool called Linuxconf.  Caldera had developed
> one called COAS, which is being replaced by Webmin.  I've not seriously
> run SuSE or Mandrake;

SuSE has YAST (Yet Another Setup Tool) and YAST2 (You guess!)

Dunno about Mandrake - the early Mandrake distro's were more or less
straight ripoffs of RedHat - but they may have diverged by now.

> I'm fairly sure they have their own system administration packages.

Since ease of configuration is the #1 selling point for a distro, it
would be suicidal not to have *something*.

> This may or may not include "package management" tools; there's quite
> a bit of variation in how much sophistication the systems provide in
> managing what versions of software are installed on your system.
> With Debian-related systems like Corel and StormLinux, it's not at all
> difficult to set up automated updates; if you, on a weekly basis, run:
>    apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -yy
> at some time when an Internet connection is "live," this will pull in
> all updates to the stuff you have installed.

Yikes!  I'd find that pretty scarey.  I like to KNOW what I changed!  If
my system suddenly refuses to reboot or something, I'd like to know what
I did to provoke that - having the system quietly go off and upgrade itself
every time I read my email sounds *dangerous*.

>  Distributions that use RPM
> (Red Hat, SuSE, TurboLinux, Caldera, Mandrake) tend not to have quite as
> comprehensive a "suite" of package management tools, but as all systems
> are works in progress, what was lacking last year isn't necessarily so
> lacking now...

Yes - but RPM's are currently the de-facto standard...I find the SuSE
package management to be pretty reasonable using YAST.

-- 
Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
              WorkEmail: <sjbaker at link.com>
              HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
              Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
                         http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net



From cachemonet at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  5 12:52:42 2000
From: cachemonet at yahoo.com (Shel Johnson)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:52:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000805175242.19306.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com>

Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
tackling a standard...

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



From al_h at technologist.com  Sat Aug  5 12:57:56 2000
From: al_h at technologist.com (al)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:57:56 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805175242.19306.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com>

Shel Johnson wrote:
> 
> Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> tackling a standard...
> 


that makes it SIMPLE

Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)

aal



From wabbit at tvec.net  Sat Aug  5 13:07:41 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:07:41 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com>; from al_h@technologist.com on Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 12:57:56 -0500
References: <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com>
Message-ID: <20000805130741.A3310@Githyanki>

How do the other distributions setup your internet security?? I think the only thing bad said about debian is that it starts several internet services without really letting you know it is. Does Suse Not do this?? or Mandrake?? Not trying to sway you, or anyone else, Just a basic question of what these distributions do. 
	Some services I can think of that are started: Telnet, Ftp, Ident.
	Just about any distribution is going to require some attention to security right off the bat. AFAIK. 


On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:57:56 al wrote:
> Shel Johnson wrote:
> > 
> > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> > tackling a standard...
> > 
> 
> 
> that makes it SIMPLE
> 
> Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)
> 
> aal
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From cbbrowne at hex.net  Sat Aug  5 13:48:51 2000
From: cbbrowne at hex.net (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 13:48:51 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:41:43 EST."
             <398C51D7.485EF997@airmail.net> 
Message-ID: <20000805184851.A32121B666@hex.net>

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:41:43 EST, the world broke into rejoicing as
Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>  said:
> Christopher Browne wrote:
> 
> > "System management" is the other area where there may be persistent
> > differences.  That is, the "pretty tools" to help you do things like:
> > - Managing printers
> > - Controlling network connections
> > - Managing other services [ftp server, database server, mail server, ...]
> > - Installing upgraded versions of software
> 
> I learned to use the command-line tools (or hand editing the config files) -
> so these things also seem identical across distro's as far as I'm concerned.

Between that and "script-oriented" schemes (I rather like cfengine), if
you need more "by hand" control, you can certainly have that.  I agree
with you that if you know how to control things by hand, the differences
between the "fancy tools" won't matter.  Indeed, a significant problem
is that an upgrade of "Linuxconf" may prove confusing if they change
it enough...

> > Red Hat has, for this, a tool called Linuxconf.  Caldera had developed
> > one called COAS, which is being replaced by Webmin.  I've not seriously
> > run SuSE or Mandrake;
> 
> SuSE has YAST (Yet Another Setup Tool) and YAST2 (You guess!)
> 
> Dunno about Mandrake - the early Mandrake distro's were more or less
> straight ripoffs of RedHat - but they may have diverged by now.

I seem to recall names based on a "dragon" motif, like "Drake."

> > This may or may not include "package management" tools; there's quite
> > a bit of variation in how much sophistication the systems provide in
> > managing what versions of software are installed on your system.
> > With Debian-related systems like Corel and StormLinux, it's not at all
> > difficult to set up automated updates; if you, on a weekly basis, run:
> >    apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -yy
> > at some time when an Internet connection is "live," this will pull in
> > all updates to the stuff you have installed.
> 
> Yikes!  I'd find that pretty scarey.  I like to KNOW what I changed!  If
> my system suddenly refuses to reboot or something, I'd like to know what
> I did to provoke that - having the system quietly go off and upgrade itself
> every time I read my email sounds *dangerous*.

It's easy enough to make it completely automated; if you want it a tad less
automated, try:
    apt-get update; apt-get upgrade -yy -d
which will download the updates, put them in /var/cache/apt/archives
and _not_ install them.
--
cbbrowne at hex.net - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer. 



From sjbaker1 at airmail.net  Sat Aug  5 15:32:59 2000
From: sjbaker1 at airmail.net (Steve Baker)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 15:32:59 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805175242.19306.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com> <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com>
Message-ID: <398C79FB.DD99298C@airmail.net>

al wrote:
> 
> Shel Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> > tackling a standard...
> >
> 
> that makes it SIMPLE
> 
> Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)

Cool - I guess that trumps the "User friendly" cartoon stickers you get with
SuSE - yeah - definitely go with Mandrake :-)

-- 
Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
              WorkEmail: <sjbaker at link.com>
              HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
              Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
                         http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
                         http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net




From al_h at technologist.com  Sat Aug  5 16:24:05 2000
From: al_h at technologist.com (al)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:24:05 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000805175242.19306.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com> <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com> <398C79FB.DD99298C@airmail.net>
Message-ID: <398C85F5.132D3324@technologist.com>

Steve Baker wrote:
> 
> al wrote:
> >
> > Shel Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> > > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> > > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> > > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> > > tackling a standard...
> > >
> >
> > that makes it SIMPLE
> >
> > Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)
> 
> Cool - I guess that trumps the "User friendly" cartoon stickers you get with
> SuSE - yeah - definitely go with Mandrake :-)
> 
> --

rotflmao
aal



From greenglow484 at juno.com  Sat Aug  5 17:50:20 2000
From: greenglow484 at juno.com (greenglow484@juno.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:50:20 -0600
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000805.165033.268.0.greenglow484@juno.com>

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 15:32:59 -0500 Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
writes:
> al wrote:
> > 
> > Shel Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an 
> iMac??..
> > > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of 
> different
> > > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for 
> now.. My
> > > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car 
> before
> > > tackling a standard...
> > >
> > 
> > that makes it SIMPLE
> > 
> > Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)
> 
> Cool - I guess that trumps the "User friendly" cartoon stickers you 
> get with
> SuSE - yeah - definitely go with Mandrake :-)
> 
> -- 
> Steve Baker   HomeEmail: <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
>               WorkEmail: <sjbaker at link.com>
>               HomePage : http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
>               Projects : http://plib.sourceforge.net
>                          http://tuxaqfh.sourceforge.net
>                          http://tuxkart.sourceforge.net
>                          http://prettypoly.sourceforge.net

Shel --

I repeat my own vote for Mandrake 7.1.

After I wrote last night, I realized I about half-way did_not_answer your
question.  Your Q was:  "...> What is the easiest linux distribution for
beginners??..."

Answer:  Mandrake 7.1, IMO.  

Their install on version 7.0 and 7.1 is as close to flawless as I've had
with any distro;  it is attractive, functional/ informative, IMO; it lets
you choose your own level of knowledge (novice/ whatever; medium;
expert).  It has a Mdk-specific tool that lets you choose the level of
system security you want to start off with (note:  if you choose the most
restrictive, "paranoid" I think it's called, then it will_not_let you log
on directly as root/ super-user/ Admin.  You first have to log on as an
ordinary user, then su (substitute/ switch user) to root.  Actually, kind
of an un-handy surprise, IMO, but their heart is probably in the right
place.)

Other stuff:  disk partitioning, package selection; Mdk install routine
just seems to be sensible, thought-out, attractive and easy for me to
use, and it works for me.  

Caution:  at very end of 7.1 install routine, when you configure the X
server (the "windoze"/ graphical settings), be careful to push the
buttons exactly right and let it go all the way thru that step, else when
you reboot, it will not automatically start the x-server/ graphical
display, and you'll have to go thru whole install again.  (no, you don't
have to maybe, but as a newbie, you may.)

Hardware:  Mdk and Red Hat both have a soundcard configuration program
(it's Red Hat's), called "sndconfig", which is the only or main way I've
ever gotten my sound card to work; (SuSE also had a similar, but no other
distro ever was as easy to config. for me.)  What this means is:  if your
sound card is an older card as mine is (I've a 3-year old Sblastr AWE 64,
which I think is PCI; I always get PCI and ISA confused), the sndconfig
in Red Hat or Mdk is, IMO, the way to go.  (SuSE now has a similar
routine in version 6.4; first time I ever had sound in a SuSE try-out,
recently).

After you install it, Mandrake is IMO more user friendly to look at and
start using.  (to some people, that's the same thing as being
windoze-ified, or "dumbed down".)  Example:  Mdk automatically makes, and
puts onto your graphical desktop, icons for each of your Windoze/ other
partitions; it makes it easy to access the other non-Linux file systems
on your machine.  Can you do it yourself?  Of course; when I first tried
RedHat, with use of LinuxConf (Mdk's variation is called "Drakeconf"), I
learned how to do it myself; see my prior post, about how that
is_a_good_thing_to_do.  But, Mdk makes it easier for a newbie/ novice,
IMO.

> .. My
> > > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car 
> before
> > > tackling a standard...

Precisely; I concur; that's how I've been doing it.  

But, definitely do start to "tackle the standard"; as I said yesterday,
learning how to do things without relying on all the graphical, cute,
windoze-ified stuff that each distro sticks in (and which is different,
distro to distro, for many of the distros).  Am I glad they stick in that
stuff?  Yes.  Does it help me?  Yes, definitely; example:  sound config. 
But does it make it a better system when I know how to tinker with it/
hack files or scripts/ whatever myself?  Also, yes, definitely; you
understand how the whole thing works together.

Just my opinion.  But for the forseeable future, my vote stays firmly
with Mdk.  Plus, like I said yesterday, their current 7.1 contains the
latest V. 4 of the x-server (the "windoze" graphical display), and the
"Helix Gnome" desktop enhancements (IMO, very attractive), although, as
others have pointed out, the other distros all pick up stuff quickly, so
the others will be there quite soon.  Again, enjoy the ride!
--
  Douglas D. Darnold	Principal/ Attorney
  LAW OFFICES OF DOUGLAS D. DARNOLD <greenglow484 at juno.com>
  P. O. Box 12461	Dallas  Texas 75225-0461	Voice: 214-368-0068




________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.



From mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug  5 20:27:00 2000
From: mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com (mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:27:00 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <398C55A4.17CA9B17@technologist.com> <20000805130741.A3310@Githyanki>
Message-ID: <398CBEE4.C6A4B7A2@austin.rr.com>

	Mandrake gives one security options at install.  It ranges from wide
open with everything running to nothing running and no access to system
files by anyone but root.

	Makes that option on Distro Choices a no brainer too.
  Do not set Security to max in Mandrake if you don't know how to start
things up manually, or you will be sitting with a pretty much usesless
system for a newbie.



Randall Gibson wrote:
> 
> How do the other distributions setup your internet security?? I think the only thing bad said about debian is that it starts several internet services without really letting you know it is. Does Suse Not do this?? or Mandrake?? Not trying to sway you, or anyone else, Just a basic question of what these distributions do.
>         Some services I can think of that are started: Telnet, Ftp, Ident.
>         Just about any distribution is going to require some attention to security right off the bat. AFAIK.
> 
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:57:56 al wrote:
> > Shel Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> > > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> > > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> > > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> > > tackling a standard...
> > >
> >
> >
> > that makes it SIMPLE
> >
> > Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)
> >
> > aal
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
Michael H. Collins



From wabbit at tvec.net  Sat Aug  5 18:50:36 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:50:36 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <398CBEE4.C6A4B7A2@austin.rr.com>; from mhtexcollins@austin.rr.com on Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 20:27:00 -0500
References: <398CBEE4.C6A4B7A2@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20000805185036.A8319@Githyanki>

Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 20:27:00 mike wrote:
> 	Mandrake gives one security options at install.  It ranges from wide
> open with everything running to nothing running and no access to system
> files by anyone but root.
> 
> 	Makes that option on Distro Choices a no brainer too.
>   Do not set Security to max in Mandrake if you don't know how to start
> things up manually, or you will be sitting with a pretty much usesless
> system for a newbie.
> 
> 
> 
> Randall Gibson wrote:
> > 
> > How do the other distributions setup your internet security?? I think the only thing bad said about debian is that it starts several internet services without really letting you know it is. Does Suse Not do this?? or Mandrake?? Not trying to sway you, or anyone else, Just a basic question of what these distributions do.
> >         Some services I can think of that are started: Telnet, Ftp, Ident.
> >         Just about any distribution is going to require some attention to security right off the bat. AFAIK.
> > 
> > On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:57:56 al wrote:
> > > Shel Johnson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Egad!!.. Now I'm REALLY confused.. Maybe I should just get an iMac??..
> > > > just kidding.. Just when I've made my decision, I'm informed of different
> > > > advantages, although I've learned to stay away from debian for now.. My
> > > > plan is to learn how to drive an automatic transmission car before
> > > > tackling a standard...
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > that makes it SIMPLE
> > >
> > > Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe( then you get the penguin too)
> > >
> > > aal
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
> -- 
> Michael H. Collins
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug  5 19:03:08 2000
From: mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com (mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:03:08 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <398CBEE4.C6A4B7A2@austin.rr.com> <20000805185036.A8319@Githyanki>
Message-ID: <398CAB3C.6E2E0315@austin.rr.com>

	But for me, I prefer "paranoid" myself.

Randall Gibson wrote:
> 
> Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha
>



From wabbit at tvec.net  Sat Aug  5 19:12:30 2000
From: wabbit at tvec.net (Randall Gibson)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:12:30 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
In-Reply-To: <398CAB3C.6E2E0315@austin.rr.com>; from mhtexcollins@austin.rr.com on Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 19:03:08 -0500
References: <398CAB3C.6E2E0315@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20000805191230.A8396@Githyanki>

Yes, I do too, but if they set security so high you cant do much of anything like you said... I'm sure its not so high you cant connect to Xserver though. I hope its not so high you have to login as root to dialout also. Just saying that more security can be as bad as none. The user will possibly just log in as root since they might not know how to fix it so they can use thier computer.

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:03:08 mike wrote:
> 	But for me, I prefer "paranoid" myself.
> 
> Randall Gibson wrote:
> > 
> > Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 




From mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug  5 21:43:08 2000
From: mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com (mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 21:43:08 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <398CAB3C.6E2E0315@austin.rr.com> <20000805191230.A8396@Githyanki>
Message-ID: <398CD0BC.2C98D7AA@austin.rr.com>

	Yup, root has to explicitly allow a dialout account.  Also cdrom,
floppy and all the usual suspects.  X works for users.

	At least one gets the chance to choose.  And you can change it globally
again later.  hehe.. scares me.

Randall Gibson wrote:
> 
> Yes, I do too, but if they set security so high you cant do much of anything like you said... I'm sure its not so high you cant connect to Xserver though. I hope its not so high you have to login as root to dialout also. Just saying that more security can be as bad as none. The user will possibly just log in as root since they might not know how to fix it so they can use thier computer.
> 
> On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:03:08 mike wrote:
> >       But for me, I prefer "paranoid" myself.
> >
> > Randall Gibson wrote:
> > >
> > > Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
Michael H. Collins



From cbbrowne at hex.net  Sat Aug  5 22:36:36 2000
From: cbbrowne at hex.net (Christopher Browne)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:36:36 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:03:08 EST."
             <398CAB3C.6E2E0315@austin.rr.com> 
Message-ID: <20000806033636.40C081B666@hex.net>

On Sat, 05 Aug 2000 19:03:08 EST, the world broke into rejoicing as
mike <mhtexcollins at austin.rr.com>  said:
> 	But for me, I prefer "paranoid" myself.
> 
> Randall Gibson wrote:
> > 
> > Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha

If you're after "paranoid," then you probably should look at OpenBSD.
It reportedly has virtually all services turned off by default; you
need to explicitly turn on those that you need.  That's not Linux,
admittedly...
--
cbbrowne at hex.net - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
Think of C++ as an object-oriented assembly language.



From cachemonet at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  6 06:29:25 2000
From: cachemonet at yahoo.com (Shel Johnson)
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 04:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
Message-ID: <20000806112925.22650.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com>

>Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha

I'm seeing that pattern too.. but I guess that's what Linux is all about, no??

=====
Shel
cachemonet at yahoo.com
ICQ- 23454126
AIM- CacheMonet

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/



From al_h at technologist.com  Sun Aug  6 07:33:58 2000
From: al_h at technologist.com (aal)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 07:33:58 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Dist.
References: <20000806112925.22650.qmail@web1702.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <398D5B36.93DE2941@technologist.com>

Shel Johnson wrote:
> 
> >Seems they go from one extreme to another!! Haha
> 
> I'm seeing that pattern too.. but I guess that's what Linux is all about, no??
> 

true,
want nice, stable, middle of the road.....
load up C/PM
rock (solid?) and just as useful with all the options...of said rock

hohohohohoho


here is a serious thought

browse through the HOWTOS for the projects you are likely to
undertake
see what distros are discussed in them

what are your friends using

If the HOWTO was written by someone using a diferent enough distro,
or your friends are using something different then you will have to
translate ANY help you get into whatever path your distro takes (BSD
or SYSV printing as one small example), distros dont agree on where
certain packages should be located either

this can be a BIG hassel, I use mandrake and I have a friend that
was talked into Suse buy a CS grad, if the guy would have supported
him this would not have been an issue

but he left him with only my support (he is in GA and I am in TX)
his frustration level is incredibly high
all the help I offer him often does little good due to different
locations, names, and methods.



!!!!!!!
so compatibility with your peers should weigh heavy in your distro
choice
!!!!!!!



good luck
aal



From kbrannen at gte.net  Sun Aug  6 13:29:19 2000
From: kbrannen at gte.net (Kevin Brannen)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:29:19 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Training.
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net> <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu> <20000802231426.A18221@astro.marx> <3989775E.C24B01EA@ericsson.com> <20000803162814.A21681@astro.marx>
Message-ID: <398DAE7F.409C26AF@gte.net>

Phil Carinhas wrote:
> 
>   Just out of curiosity,
>   what are folks using to write course materials in? I'm stuck on Latex
>   but I'd much rather be using Docbook, espeicially since the
>   Latex macros don't get translated well in Latex2html.

When I have to write indepth documentation, I usually use Lyx.  It's a Desktop
Publishing Tool.  You can have it save to LaTeX, and it will also translate
that into Postscript.  I rarely have trouble with running its output through
latex2html (assuming one uses the latest version, the earlier version had a
lot of trouble).

Kevin



From jeff at cosmiczombie.com  Sun Aug  6 16:11:05 2000
From: jeff at cosmiczombie.com (Jeff Demel)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:11:05 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] X Problem - Newbie
References: <4.2.0.58.20000728123611.009cba10@dalwan.net>
 <20000801002545.A10884@endor.hsutx.edu> <20000802231426.A18221@astro.marx>
 <3989775E.C24B01EA@ericsson.com> <20000803162814.A21681@astro.marx>
 <398DAE7F.409C26AF@gte.net>
Message-ID: <009e01bfffea$d92bf4f0$0200a8c0@c972641a>

X is giving me some troubles today.  I'm running GNOME/Enlightenment on a
Red Hat 6.2 box.

I was switching between some files in Gnotepad+ earlier today, and the
computer froze.  Damn thing froze hard.  After rebooting I couldn't get X to
start.

Here's the error I got:

_FontTransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111
Failed to set default font path 'unix/:-1'
Fatal Server Error:
Couldn't open defualt font 'fixed'

I wasn't really sure what this error was trying to tell me, so I searched
the Red hat site and came up with nothing.  Deja.com had a few suggestions.
I tried running XFS, but it just says "Warning!" and hangs.  Finally, I
commented out the line - FontPath "unix/:-1" - in my XF86Config file.  Now X
starts, which is great, but I don't see this as a fix, more like a
workaround.

So...  Anyone have some advice for me?  What exactly is the FontPath
"unix/:-1" line doing?  Do I need it?  If I do, what should I do to fix it?

-Jeff




From james at linux-guy.com  Sun Aug  6 19:21:59 2000
From: james at linux-guy.com (James L. Skidmore)
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:21:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] X Problem - Newbie
In-Reply-To: <009e01bfffea$d92bf4f0$0200a8c0@c972641a>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0008061919130.9223-100000@ns1.linux-guy.com>

Jeff,

There are some files that are created in /tmp/ (I don't remember what
they are called, but should be fairly obvious) that you need to get rid
of to fix the problem.

============================================================
James L. Skidmore		james at linux-guy.com
http://linux-guy.com		helpline: metro 817-516-7170
   Linux - Consulting - Training - Security - Networks
============================================================

On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Jeff Demel wrote:

> X is giving me some troubles today.  I'm running GNOME/Enlightenment on a
> Red Hat 6.2 box.
> 
> I was switching between some files in Gnotepad+ earlier today, and the
> computer froze.  Damn thing froze hard.  After rebooting I couldn't get X to
> start.
> 
> Here's the error I got:
> 
> _FontTransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111
> Failed to set default font path 'unix/:-1'
> Fatal Server Error:
> Couldn't open defualt font 'fixed'




From kbrannen at gte.net  Sun Aug  6 22:19:10 2000
From: kbrannen at gte.net (Kevin Brannen)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:19:10 -0500
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] X Problem - Newbie
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0008061919130.9223-100000@ns1.linux-guy.com>
Message-ID: <398E2AAE.C18F9C09@gte.net>

"James L. Skidmore" wrote:
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> There are some files that are created in /tmp/ (I don't remember what
> they are called, but should be fairly obvious) that you need to get rid
> of to fix the problem.

That's possible; look for files that deal with the X Font Server.  But I
really don't know if this is the problem.  If you normally run with the XFS,
then it probably is; if you don't, then read on...

> 
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Jeff Demel wrote:
> 
...
> >
> > Here's the error I got:
> >
> > _FontTransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111
> > Failed to set default font path 'unix/:-1'
> > Fatal Server Error:
> > Couldn't open defualt font 'fixed'

That fontpath is telling it to use the "unix" transport for fonts (the man
page shows "tcp" for this), and if not found, check the "" machine for an XFS
on port "-1" (see the man page for "XF86Config").  That looks like a pretty
bogus value to me, unless it is some default value that has special meaning
(which is not in the man page).

My file has this in it:

Section "Files"
  RgbPath       "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
  FontPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
EndSection

Yours may differ, as you many not have loaded the same font RPMs as I did. 
Also, I'm not running an XFS.  I could also have put all these on a single
line, like:

Section "Files"
  RgbPath       "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
  FontPath      
"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1,
... ,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
EndSection

So I guess the bottom line question that's going to determine what you should
do is:  Are you running an XFS?  Take the appropriate action based on the
answer to that question.

HTH,
Kevin