[NTLUG:Discuss] Job Searching

[Swapan Sarkar]

Here is my observation:

We cannot leave everything to market forces /
capitalism all the time. We need government
intervention / socialist attitude on some cases
sometimes. 
We are feeling it here in the job market, some
countries feel it in the product/services market and
in some countries they feel it in the culture market.
When US/multinationals tells other countries to open
up their market to sell their products/services then
they cannot deny other countries legitimate demand to
open up their job market to the same market forces.
If you say the government should intervene to help the
citizens (and I would agree to some extent for the
welfare of the needy) then they should not stop other
countries when they do the same. And that is what WTO
is trying to do.
So in this age of globalization this is one pain we
all have to go through.

Swapan

> I'll try to summarize my sentiments in this single
> message...
> 
> Steve wrote in a prior message:
> >Well, let's be careful with the Xenophobia here.
> >
> >I'm one of those foreigners who came here on an
> H1-B.  I agree that there
> are
> >cases where companies abuse the H1-B system to
> bring in cheap labour -
> people
> >who are "in green-card jail" can't easily change
> jobs and stand no chance
> of
> >ever getting a pay rise.
> 
> First, I don't care how hard or bad it is for
> foreigners who come here
> [invited] under an H1-B visa.  That only makes them
> more "innocent" as
> victims but irrelevant to the case.
> 
> The case here is the U.S. government allowing import
> workers to replace
> workers in the U.S.  This is a case of the
> government supporting business
> interests at the expense of its own citizens.  I
> don't care how you cut it,
> CITIZENS first, everyone else second.  No one can
> ever disagree with that.
> If you can dispute that point, I'd be interested in
> an intelligent argument
> regarding that.
> 
> Stever writes more:
> >HOWEVER - to apply a blanket ban is sheer
> stupidity.  Look at my personal
> >circumstances:
> >
> >  1) I was *INVITED* to come to the US and work - I
> didn't ask.  The work I
> >     do is flight simulation - primarily for the US
> armed forces.  Every
> F117
> >     pilot and practically every F18 pilot fighting
> out in Afghanistan
> right
> >     now learned to do critical parts of his job on
> simulators that I
> helped
> >     to design.  Ditto for F16 pilots if they get
> involved.
> 
> If not you, someone else... and if not for H1-B visa
> abuse, it would have
> been a well-paid U.S. Citizen.
> 
> >  3) Whilst there is no shortage of technical
> people here, there *IS* a
> >     vast shortage in some fields.  Mine is one of
> those.  The company I
> >     work for has been trying to recruit more
> people with my skills for at
> >     least the past 5 years - with exactly zero
> success.
> 
> Don't fool yourself.  Free market rules suggest that
> that prices are set by
> demand.  The (ab)use of H1-B visas allow for market
> participation at lower
> bid rates.  The recruiters stack the cards against
> qualified U.S. citizens
> regularly by requiring high qualifications at too
> low a pay rate.  That is
> exactly why positions "advertised" for so long go
> unhired.  It's all part of
> the game as stated by another writer.
> 
> >  4) It's not *always* that H1-B's are cheaper and
> depress local salaries
> >     - I earn well over $100k not counting the 20
> hours paid overtime I
> >     do most weeks. That's a LOT for a
> programmer..specialised knowledge
> >     or not.  I'm not here as "cheap labour".
> 
> ...fuel to the fire...  That's pretty decent pay,
> I'll give you that... a
> U.S. worker with the same quals would likely earn
> more though.  I know I'll
> regret even asking, but what exactly are your
> qualifications on this?
> 
> >  5) In order to turn my H1-B into a work permit,
> they had to *PROVE* to
> >     the INS that nobody in the US is both willing
> and able to do the job
> >     at the current market salary.  They had to
> advertise the job - record
> every
> >     letter, resume, phone call, etc from
> applicants for *my* job - and
> >     individually explain to the INS why each
> candidate was rejected.
> >     If they had found someone, I'd have been on
> the next plane back home.
> 
> Proof is subjective to the rules twisted, bent and
> broken to serve their
> interests, which incidentally, serves those of the
> people who recruited
> you -- someone got a VERY tasty bonus for selling
> out a U.S. citizen... a
> bonus typically based on a percentage of what you
> earn.  It's in their
> interests that you get a higher salary as well. 
> Regardless of the rules in
> place and all the audits that are run to verify
> compliance, proof of abuse
> is common enough and punishment is small enough not
> to act as a deterant.
> No one can deny that audits regularly uncover the
> kind of abuse I complain
> about so spare the argument... rules are good only
> when followed.
> 
> [Steve goes on to discuss international relations]
> 
> Do I need to counter that with the policies and
> attitudes regarding U.S.
> Americans in European countries?  I didn't think
> so... invalid argument.
> 
> As for where "programmer farms from abroad" is
> concerned -- many U.S.
> companies aren't usually willing to participate in
> that because it means
> lower security of their IP (Intellectual Property). 
> To the lawers and
> bean-counters of a corporation, IP *is* the product
> of the labor and must
> remain safely within the walls of the company.  So
> where there are cases
> where it happens, most companies are uncomfortable
> with the idea.
> 
> So, in summary and closing, H1-B visas have proven
> themselves to be an
> abused commodity where it is regularly used to
> outplace or deny U.S.
> citizens an opportunity for work at a fair-market
> rate.  Fair-market rate is
> lowered through these market manipulations in spite
> of the rules set forth
> by the government.  U.S. law should maintain a
> stance supporting its
> 
=== message truncated ===


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