[NTLUG:Discuss] Re: Games on Linux (was: Wine presentation)

[Steve]

(changed the subject here)

Steve Baker wrote:


> Carmack clearly does love Linux - you can see that in all the efforts
> he put in to the Mesa drivers for the G200 and G400 cards.  

 
> That was a direct contribution to Linux from a *very* busy man...so there
> must be some love there!


I think Carmack just loves neat technology in general and doesn't like 
it when things that hinder his neat technology get in his way. That rare 
nirvana where you have both the opportunity and the resources to do 
makes you happy.

 


>>No reason why a simpler game than Quake, something like Myst or Tetris,
>>something that relied more on concept than just sheer brute-force pixel
>>pushing, can't do well on Linux financially. But today's games more and
>>more resemble the movie industry for better or worse.
>>
> 
> There are over 50 copies of Tetris for Linux.  It's a popular game for
> people to write because:
> 
>   * The well known screwup over the original ownership means you
>     don't get sued for cloning it.
>   * It doesn't take *any* fancy artwork.
>   * You can write it in a couple of evenings.
>   * Tetris is *FUN*.

> Myst is the antipathy of a do-able Linux game - and there are no clones
> of it (that I know of)...because...
> 
>   * It needs *MASSES* of beautiful artwork.
>   * It needs cunningly thought-out puzzles.
>   * It needs a well-written plot/back-story.
>   * It needs 'hauntingly beautiful' music.



I don't mean for the games to be taken that literally. A small, 
profitable Linux-only gaming company could emerge if the games aren't 
expensive to make but still very fun to play. In other words, it relies 
more on the concept of the game rather than the technology behind it. No 
reason a game addictive-as-Tetrix-but-not-Tetrix cannot be done 
profitably (or even volunteer) on Linux.

If you have a good concept with good gameplay, you don't need to have 
uber-graphics, uber-sound, and uber-music. The hard part in terms of a 
successful game is the good concept and good gameplay, but although 
difficult, at least that process can be relatively independent of 
financial resources. One person could come up with the plot, puzzles, 
etc. Uber-graphics, sound, music usually is dependent on financial 
resources. One person usually cannot do all of these.


 >   ...although the programming isn't all that challenging...

This is the reason why I mentiond it. If there were no Mysties out there 
and if Linux users would buy it and if you had the idea for it, you 
could put it together. Maybe, it's not as good as Myst. Your plot isn't 
quite as good, puzzles aren't quite as elegant, you had to hire starving 
artists and musicians, but your game would capture the essence of Myst 
(something novel and fun to the masses). People would overlook the fact 
that you didn't have the top tier of creative talent behind you.

 
> So - I'm hovering on the edge of giving up on Evil Overlord and trying something
> less ambitious.  


> It's all rather depressing frankly.


I don't see why it should be. You sorta represent what I'm talking 
about. Ok, maybe it's not working out terribly well right now, but the 
core is there.

The difference is that you're mainly talking about a volunteer effort 
while we were also talking about commercial ones. The problem with a 
volunteer effort is that they're nice to have, but at any time, you may 
be low on volunteers (or not have any). However, you can always find 
somebody to do your work for a price. May not be great work for your 
price, but you can usually find somebody.


 > Then I did a small commercial game (actually just a playable demo
 > to show off some new 3D hardware).  That time, I had professional
 > artists paid to do the modelling...it looks a million times
 > better than my own efforts.

Well, there you go. Maybe you can find somebody who would work for a 
third of the price and it would still look 10,000 * better than your own 
efforts (adjust numbers as needed...)

How about this? Can you find a starving musician and or artwork guy at 
the local big-ass college? There are always some. What about overseas? 
Maybe you can tell them, I can't pay you upfront, but I will give you a 
cut of all the software proceeds. Or I'll pay you a little upfront and 
the rest is a cut. At the very least, they get something on their resume 
(if it's a successful product, it'll be worth more than the amount they 
get at that level). They're starving; they're open for negotiations.

Maybe you could ask for donations from your users. Tell them that you 
will make 0 economic profit for yourself (but still cover your costs) to 
find good people. If you have tens of thousands of interested users, can 
you squeeze an average of $0.50 from each to fund initial development 
for a game that will be released to the masses for free?

There may be a variety of ways that you can still release what 
represents the core of the game. May not win you an award but good 
enough to ship and have fun with.


>>The business model isn't fundamentally broken for the reasons that you
>>mention. These same 3 problems are problems that MacOS users usually
>>encounter. However, you can still make some money doing MacOS ports
>>because the market is there. The returns kinda suck, but they're there.
>>It is not there yet for Linux for games for these types of games.
>>
> 
> So why do you think there are Mac games but (virtually) no Linux games?
> 
> IIRC, there are more Linux users than Mac users out there in the world.


I hear this a lot, but could somebody point out a source for these 
numbers? I would also like to see the criteria.

But let's assume it's true. Just because Linux has more users doesn't 
mean that there's a bigger market out there. If I am selling luxury 
goods, I can target the tiny but affluent suburb or go into a poorer 
part of town but with many more people. I will probably be better off 
going to the affluent suburb. It depends on what you're selling and who 
you're selling it to. Let's assume that there are more Mac users out 
there, a product for insert-enterprise-software-here probably won't sell 
that well on the Mac side as the folks who need this probably don't use 
Macs to do it.

I think it's same with the current Linux user composition. There just 
aren't enough people out who either (a) want to play these games on 
Linux or (b) want to pay for these games to justify a port or (c) 
something else I can't think of on the top of my head. It could be (b), 
but I think it's mainly (a) and wil cover my ass and say some (c). 
Again, I think this will change as time goes on.

Steve