[NTLUG:Discuss] Linux for the State of Texas?

Tue Apr 23 23:09:29 CDT 2002

Thanks Kevin,   I needed that.  But you and I are on the same page, you are just more eloquent.   This is an email I will put in my personal archives.
Garion

kbrannen at gte.net wrote:

>I'll attempt an answer to both...
>
>Vaidya, Harshal (Cognizant) wrote:
>> Hi,
>>   Even i am frustated about the lack of Cut Copy Pasting in Linux.I was
>> thinking of starting off a project which would enable this CCP functionality
>> exactly the same way it is in Windows.
>> 
>>   Any voulenteers.I am serious about this!!
>
>I'm not trying to wiggle out of answering, but your complaint is fairly vague 
>since you don't name the apps you're having trouble with, so concrete advice 
>is hard to find.  However, there is still some help available. :-)  My answer 
>assumes you're running X and not the console (which has gpm, but I personally 
>avoid that program like the plague. :-)
>
>X Window has something called Cut Buffers, which is something like mswindows's 
>clipboard.  X has a default cut buffer, #0 (as programmers generally start 
>counting at 0).  In an xterm app, highlight something with button 1; that goes 
>into cut buffer 0.  Highlight something else, cut buffer 0 is overwritten.  In 
>the xterm, click button 2 to paste the text (yes, X assumes you have a 3 
>button mouse, if you don't then click both buttons at the same time which will 
>emulate button 2 if X is set up correctly for your system).  You can copy -n- 
>paste from most apps running under X this way, at least most of the time. :-/ 
>  More on the full solution in a minute.
>
>However, some apps don't play nicely, they don't use the X cut buffers 
>directly.  Alas, Star Office is one of them; but it can be forced.  My 
>favorite calendar program (ical) is another.  And so on.  Why?  The best I can 
>explain it is via an old (but true) joke:  The great thing about standards is 
>there's so many of them to chose from. :-)
>
>So what's one to do?  May I suggest running a program called "xcb", for "X Cut 
>Buffers".  You can create as many buffers as you want (be reasonable, :-) I 
>have 10, default is 8.  Then when something is highlighted, it will show up in 
>xcb.  You can click on any cell to put the contents in the "default" buffer, 
>which you can then paste almost anywhere.  This is also how you can get around 
>all the apps that don't play nicely; i.e. highlight what you want, paste it 
>into an xcb cell, then highlight that cell, and paste into somewhere else. 
>Some programs like Star Office, will require you to do Edit->Copy before you 
>can paste into xcb (and vica-versa for pasting into Star Office), but you can 
>make it work.  Alas, some programs will still require extra work (ical makes 
>you do control-Y to paste, even though copying works "normally"); either learn 
>or avoid them (ical has been abandoned by its developer so it won't probably 
>won't be fixed, but I think its the best calendar program for the way I work). 
>  I can give you other xcb tips if you want; but read the man page first to 
>see what else you can do with it, as that's where I got all my info.
>
>Please note, one area mswindows beats Linux is that mswindows can c-n-p 
>non-text objects like graphics.  Perhaps one day we'll catch up there.
>
>Where does one learn this kind of stuff?  That's a good question, and a place 
>Linux can get better on.  I learned it because I used to do X programming, as 
>well as LOTS of reading. :-)
>
>Lastly, you'll never be able to implement mswindows style of ^c, ^v, ^x to 
>copy, past, cut--as that would require changing all the apps (that don't 
>already do that, some like Mozilla already use those keys for those 
>functions).  Also, some apps already use those "keys" for other things, and 
>they will/can not be changed (e.g. vi uses ^v, and emacs uses ^c, both of 
>which were around before Linux.)
>
>More below...
>
>> 
>> -- Harshal.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: falconjetflyer at netscape.net [mailto:falconjetflyer at netscape.net]
>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:52 AM
>> To: discuss at ntlug.org
>> Subject: RE: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux for the State of Texas?
>> 
>> 
>> Ok, I concider myself more computer savy than the average bear.
>> BUT,  My 9 months of experience with Linux has left me frustrated.
>> There are no standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>They're coming.  The Linux Standards Base committee just released v1.1, IIRC. 
>  Version 1.0 helped the major distros to get closer; v1.1 will help more. 
>There are other standards out there as well.  This is one place where not 
>having a single company be responsible for it all hurts us...sigh...
>
>> I can't paste between app's
>
>Again vague, but see above.
>
>> Upgrades are a joke.   No that's not true, they are impossible except for
>> you programmers and software engineers.   
>> How do you expect the average government worker (not the sharpest pencil in
>> the pocket) to deal with all this. 
>
>I don't expect it, and they shouldn't try it.  Ignoring Linux on the home 
>machine, which would be impossible for many (I'm sad to say), the government 
>worker is in an office, i.e. like a business.  It should have an IT 
>department.  Linux is one of those wonderful operating systems that can be 
>remotely administered.  I could write a short script that would take a list of 
>machines, and automatically update them (after I had tested the updates first 
>of course. :-)  So IMHO, this is a non-problem; you just weren't yet aware of 
>this possibility--now you are. :-)
>
>Also, I think all the major distros how have online updates to make life 
>easier.  These programs work pretty well 99% of the time, but that last 1% can 
>be a real bear!!!  This will get better with time, though I wished I didn't 
>have to wait. :-)
>
>> I LOVE LINUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> But you gurus need to make it a lot easier and reliable before our ethnicly
>> disabled government workers can use it.
>> And thems the fax jack
>> Garion
>
>Personal opinion, Linux is ready for any server room today.  Linux is ready 
>only for some desktops today, and then only for the more technically competant 
>(not Linux savvy, just technically competant).  But if I can join in the group 
>whine, what's holding Linux back the most is missing apps.  One day...
>
>I use Linux 98% of the time at work.  I run msWin2K only when I have to (for 
>ms-project), and even then, I never leave Linux as I run Win2K inside VMWare; 
>so I can have the best of both worlds. :-)
>
>FYI, I am a developer with system admin experience, therefore, I'm not like 
>the "average office worker", but I do subject my wife to Linux from time to 
>time to see how close it's ready for the average desktop.  With the newer KDE 
>releases, I find that it's getting very close.  Microsoft is right to be wary 
>of Linux.
>
>HTH,
>Kevin
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>

__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop at Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/