[NTLUG:Discuss] Re: Software engineer? -- private negligence != criminal negligence

[Cameron, Thomas]

I *knew* that you couldn't drop this Bryan, even though you clearly said that you had made your last post on the subject in your last post.

Let me see how much more clear I can make it:  THIS IS TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC.  Several people, myself included, have made clear that we are really not interested in your chest-thumping.  

BTW - your .sig is totally wrong.  It's not that we see what we dislike in the other trade, it's that you come across as an egotistical, condescending, know-it-all horse's *ss.

Now please, please can we let this thread die?

Thanks!
Thomas Cameron, RHCE, CNE, MCSE, MCT
Assistant Vice President
Linux Design and Engineering
Bank of America
(972) 997-9641

The opinions expressed in this message to not necessarily reflect those of my employer, Bank of America.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at ntlug.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at ntlug.org]On
> Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:49 AM
> To: NTLUG Discussion List
> Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Re: Software engineer? -- private 
> negligence !=
> criminal negligence
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2004-08-02 at 10:40, Greg Edwards wrote:
> > Actually the issue of being held accountable for the end 
> results has 
> > been better established than most people in our industry realize.
> > When you work as a Consultant or Contractor E&O (Errors and 
> Omissions) 
> > insurance is an issue.  If you work for a consulting 
> agency, as a W2 
> > employee, they carry the insurance for you.  As an 
> independent you have 
> > to carry your own.  When you work for a company the liability falls 
> > under the product sold by the company.
> 
> Don't confuse _private_ liability with _public_ liability.
> You can lodge a complaint againt a licensed PE with the state BoPE.
> Depending on the circumstances, he/she can be held _criminally_
> negligent.
> 
> _Huge_ difference.
> 
> BTW, don't forget that it's not so much about "good'ole boys" 
> wanting to
> call themselves engineers or not.  It's about public trusts.  
> The state
> BoPEs don't start suing Microsoft, Novell and others _until_ 
> the number
> of complaints from _private_citizens_ gets high enough that it becomes
> an issue for them to care -- or, worse yet, someone gets mamed or
> killed.
> 
> Again.  No one is "anal" on the use of the title of "engineer."  But
> because people _have_ died as a result of lack of adherence 
> to code and
> laws, more and more public works are requiring PEs for software
> engineering work.  Software controls everything these days, so it was
> only a matter of time.
> 
> May the BoPEs "wake up" sooner than later.
> 
> > One of the major problems with the arguments made about registering 
> > Software Engineers and applying a licensing mechanism like other 
> > Engineering disciplines is that software design is not a 
> static process. 
> >   Every solution has the potential to be unique and new so 
> it doesn't 
> > fit in a box of rules like doing a stress analysis on a bridge.
> > Computer Science is older than Software Engineering as a recognized 
> > discipline and you'll find that most Software Engineers, 
> that have been 
> > at this for more than 7-8 years, have a Computer Science 
> base.  Computer 
> > Scientists that wanted to do algorithm research and theory 
> followed the 
> > R&D tract and those that wanted to apply followed the 
> engineering tract.
> 
> Software Engineering and Computer Science are _very_different_.
> One has an engineering core.  One does not.
> 
> If the Computer Science program does indeed have an 
> engineering core, it
> is no longer a BSCS, but a BSCSE (Computer Science Engineering).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Engineers scoff at me because I have IT certifications
>  IT Pros scoff at me because I am a degreed engineer
>     I see and understand both of their viewpoints
>   Unfortunately Engineers and IT Pros only see in me
>        what they dislike about the other trade
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Bryan J. Smith                      b.j.smith at ieee.org
> 
> 
> 
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