[NTLUG:Discuss] DistroWatch 10 Most Popular Linux Distros

[terry]

2009/3/25 Ted Gould <ted at gould.cx>:
> On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 13:41 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
>> On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 12:47 -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 11:52 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
>> > > On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 11:40 -0500, Gilbert Morrow wrote:
>> > > > Have been a Distrowatch fan for a long time , in fact several years .AS I
>> > > > have said over and over , Ubuntu is over rated , of course coming from a
>> > > > Corel Linux user and then Red Hat .
>> > >
>> > > Ubuntu has a "rabid" community though.  I will say that they're often
>> > > "wrong" about certain things from technical point of view... but they
>> > > are there and their web site is awesome.
>> >
>> > To be curious, what's wrong from a technical point of view?
>>
>> It could be a Debian thing... but, for example, the Synaptic
>> package manager (and I here apt-get does this as well) downloads,
>> installs and STARTS services (yes... STARTS them without
>> me making config changes before they are stated).  Oh... I'm
>> sure it's probably configurable somewhere, but that SHOULD
>> not be the default for packages.
>
> Yes, that would be a Debian packaging thing.  I guess I'm a little
> confused at your point here.  You want to install packages but not have
> them run?

Well, for one thing, he said "service" not "package" and  there is
something to be said for not running a service until you  have had a
chance to configure it properly.  For instance,  if you  install an
ftp server, you'll want to decide who gets to use it and who doesn't
and what areas the user has access to and what directories and files
the client user does not have write privileges to etc...  and you will
want to address these issues before actually turning on the service.


It would seem that the same case would happen on any
> distribution that allowed for packages to install and be set to run on
> startup.  There is no guarantee that you're happy with the settings when
> you reboot.

That's just the point, you need to be happy with the settings before
truing the service on.  On a Ubuntu system, the service is turned on
as part of the install process, rebooting is not an issue because the
service is turned on as soon as the install is completed and many of
us just don't like that.  And yes, one could conceivably just turn it
off  immediately and leave it off until such time as proper
configuration issues can be addressed and completed, so it is not all
that big of a deal, not a deal breaker for me anyway..... [I'm just
trying to  help make Chris' point]... I don't like it much, but as
long as I know how it works on a Ubuntu system, [that services are
automatically turned on as soon as the install is completed] I can
deal  with it - one just needs to know it and be prepared to do
something about it right away... if need be.

>
>> All in all, they're trying to duplicate the "friendliness"
>> of Windows.  And that's just SOOOO wrong.  People who think
>> Linux distros are "hard"... just don't understand the
>> complexity of being on a shared network.... Windows makes
>> 1001 assumptions... and has a myriad of security issues.
>> We don't need to emulate them.
>
> Could you give some examples of Ubuntu security flaws that are created
> through this "duplication of Windows"?  I'm not aware of any.  In fact,
> I can largely only think of security enhancements.  The hiding of the
> root user.  Apparmor by default.  No external services enabled by
> default.

It is good that a Ubuntu system comes with sshd not installed, because
to me, the disabled root user and sudo set up by default [giving the
user admin privileges over everything] is less secure [than having a
standard install with the root user enabled and no sudo for users by
default].


>
> Sure, shared networks are complex, but there's no reason to pass that
> complexity on to users.  That's an issue for developers and engineers.

Now days everyone is on an untrusted network - very few people leave
their computers disconnected from the internet.


>
>                --Ted
>
>
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