[NTLUG:Discuss] Linux Distro

[Rev. wRy]

On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 19:47, Wayne Dahl wrote:
<snip>

Um, I'm not a good example really.  I may have had an itch to fix
something that TJ had wrong with his stuff, and had lived thru it, but
I'm a firm believer in RTFM.

> TJ,
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can say I sort of understand it.  I'm
> a Linux newbie, hate M$ and want an alternative.  I have not gotten
> answers to all of my questions from the people on this list, but
> honestly, if anyone expects one resource to answer every possible
> question (and actually finds one that does...I WANT access to THAT
> resource!), then they're barking up the wrong tree.  

I know this is sorta the equiv of RTFM, but seriously, take a class at
your local community college.  It's cheap, you'll likely know more than
your classmates already, and if you couch it right, we just might do
your homework (not really.  We'll tell you to go read the bash man
pages).

It really helps a lot if you have some idea of the *nix world before you
jump headlong into it.  

> I have a lot of questions about doing things using a GUI.  I don't get
> many answers from the guys on this list because most of the guys on this
> list live on the CLI.  At least, that's what someone from the list
> posted to me one day in response to some question I had that I never got
> a response to.  That could be taken as rude (i.e., no response), but it
> could also mean that just no one has an answer.

This is very true.  I avoid gui's simply because most of the time I
don't need one.  It is awfully hard to click on the latest pr0n link
from lynx though. ;p

> One thing I would recommend to the people on this list is, if you want
> people who come from a M$ background to ever accept Linux as a viable
> desktop OS, then you should get up to speed on doing things via GUI
> because that's all 90% of M$ users know.  That may not be technical
> enough, but let's face it, 90% of the M$ users out there don't even know
> how to really use the M$ stuff, much less something based on Linux or
> any other OS.  I think of my folks...they know so little about their
> computer, my brother has PCAnywhere loaded on it so if they break
> something, he can dial into it and fix it remotely (they live in
> Oklahoma, we both live in the D/FW area).  And don't tell me people like
> that shouldn't be using Linux.  Perhaps not, but isn't the goal to
> provide an alternative to even non-computer-literate people so they
> don't have to keep paying for M$ bloatware every time Redmond decides
> they need to soak the little people?  <rant mode off>

While a fine rant, I'm at a loss as to what you are really bitching
about.  Set them up with VNC (probably better off with tightVNC), and do
the same thing.

I'd posit that most people I deal with daily aren't computer literate. 
They know how to open a file, print the file, and close the file.  That
is not computer literate.

As I get older and more bitter (HAH), I'd be happy to explain to your
parents what a file system is like.  How it's really like a file
cabinet, and you open the drawers and folders within to see what's
there.

AOL, MSN and anybody else that takes away that explanation of HOW IT
WORKS is shortchanging their customers.  Particularly the ones like my
grandma.

> One thing I've found helpful is to check the home pages for other
> resources, like Sawfish, Enlightenment, Gnome, KDE, Samba, Wine,
> etc...and sign up for the appropriate email lists for what I need and
> answers for what I'm trying to do.  I've also checked the Usenet (or
> whatever they're calling it now

It's still usenet.

> ...I hardly use it though) using Pan.  
> One thing I've found out is, you're going to see a lot of stuff not
> related to anything you're doing, but if you have a question, ask it.  I
> had screwed up my normal login account by selecting Enlightenment as the
> WM and then went back to Gnome before logging out...and then couldn't
> log back in again.  Kept getting some error about some file Enlightment
> couldn't find.  I asked here, got no help...not that that's really a
> problem as this may not have been the best place to ask.  I joined a
> list specifically for Enlightenment users support and actually didn't
> get the answer there either.  One thing I'm not afraid to do (most of
> the time) is diddle with something...and I actually found the answer to
> my problem mysel

I'm not going to point out the really obvious, but if you got it
installed, you had a problem, a clue to look for, and *found* said clue,
perhaps that open source/free software thing just might work.

> One thing...I'm not sure about etiquette on this list, but on others
> this is appropriate...if you get an answer...even if it didn't come from
> here, but you asked about it here, post your solution as there may be
> others on the list having the same problem who haven't said anything. 
> I've been too lax about doing that myself, but will try to pay closer
> attention to it in the future.

Indeed!  Just trim.  Like I ignored doing throughout this post.  Heh.

> Guys, don't take this post as a slap on the hand about how you sound or
> post, but I can understand TJ's feeling.  This IS a Linux Users Group
> list and there are always going to be varying experience levels on it. 
> As such, we should always want to help (as much as possible) the people
> new to the OS so we can really provide an alternative to those people
> who hate the Redmond monster.

Agreed, but if you install packages and DONT READ THE PART THAT SAYS IN
BIG LETTERS:  "README"

You kinda ask for it.

> TJ, if you're still there, and would like some information about other 
> email lists specific to a particular product, app or problem, let me
> know and I'll send you the info I have about them.  I'm on several.  Be
> warned, however...some generate a LOT of mail and most of it you won't
> care anything about.
> 
> Thanks guys...and I really DO appreciate the help I've gotten from you
> in the past.

Pass it on. :)

> Wayne

While I don't usually sign it on this list:

Rev. wRy
(TJ should look at the exchange server - that's the beast causing the trouble)