[NTLUG:Discuss] OT: Java question

Jeff Demel work at myverse.net
Thu Mar 25 13:55:03 CST 2004


> 
> > It was my understanding that M$ was going to discontinue support for
> > Java from any IE products and replace it .NET only support. 
>  Anyone know 
> > if this is still true?  Does this mean that they'll try to 
> block Java as 
> > a valid plugin?  Is Sun, or anyone else, planning on 
> maintaining an M$ 
> > version of JVM to fill the void if M$ drops it?
> 
> I really know absolutely nothing about .NET.  What would this 
> mean to the Linux world?  More of the same problems I've been 
> having with this Java script issue with other apps?
> 
> Wayne


Let's be clear, Java and JavaScript are two different beasties.  Java
virtual machines have always been problematic when dealing with applets in
ANY browser on ANY platform.  The tug-o-war between MS and Sun on Java
virtual machines has left web developers with no clear path to produce
cross-platform applets that just work, which was supposed to be the big
promise of Java applets.  However, using Java Server Pages, which is a
server-side technology, everything's hunky dory - it uses the VM on the
server itself, so it's easy to control and test.  JavaScript, being a
client-side scripting technology, suffers from some of the same issues as
applets because they are dependent on the browser's use, or misuse, of the
DOM, which is supposed to be based on standards.  We all know what MS does
with standards, so that's been subverted.  In all fairness, though, NO
browser fully supports the established standards.  The only way to develop
cross-platform web applications that use client-side JavaScript is to only
use JavaScript that works in all browsers (and test, test, test) or write
detection scripts that determine the visitor's browser, version, and
platform and use code that will work for each, meaning you have to write
code for each type.  Yuck.

.NET applications running on a web server are platform independent like Java
Server Pages because the run on the server and not the client machine.  It
shouldn't matter what browser you use, as it's a server-side technology.
I've been coding ASP.NET with VB now for a little while, and have to say
that it delivers on platform independence for the most part.  Where you run
into trouble is if you use controls that produce JavaScript on the fly, like
if you're using Microsoft's form validation, which creates JavaScript/DHTML
on the fly to validate form fields before submission.  Of course, all you
need to do is download a DOM-compliant control (free and open source), and
use that instead.  Works like a charm.  I had to tweak it a bit for Mozilla
on Windows, but it worked fine after that.  Using the DOM-compliant
validation control will let your application determine the browser, back to
the 3.0 browsers from what I hear (never tested), and only use JavaScript
that will work.  If the browser just doesn't support JavaScript, then it
defaults to server-side validation.  Very nice indeed.

As to .NET applications, a whole different subject, it will work similar to
Java.  Every platform/os would have it's own version of the .NET Framework,
just like every platform/os needs it's own version of the JVM.  Don't hold
your breath for .NET for Linux, though, for obvious monopolistic reasons.

As to the question of MS removing their JVM, excellent!  Then everyone can
standardize to Sun's and we will be back in business.

-Jeff




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