[NTLUG:Discuss] [javamug] Re: software engineer?
Stuart Yarus
Stuart_Yarus at compusa.com
Thu Jul 29 14:38:18 CDT 2004
*** Authentication Certificate ***
Hi,
This thread may be of some interest.
Stuart Yarus
----- Forwarded by Stuart Yarus/Is/Corporate/CompUSA on 07/29/04 02:44 PM
-----
Celeste.Haseltine@
dal.frb.org To: "Kin Hui" <kinhui at nortelnetworks.com>
Sent by: cc: JavaMug <javamug at utdallas.edu>, javamug-bounce at utdallas.edu
javamug-bounce at utd Subject: [javamug] Re: software engineer?
allas.edu
07/29/04 01:07 PM
Taken directly from THE STATE OF TEXAS, TEXAS ENGINEERING PRACTICE ACT AND
RULES CONCERNING THE PRACTICE OF ENGINEERING
AND PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING LICENSURE. This is the "law" that is
"enforced" by the Board. I've pulled applicable sections of the law here
just as FYI. You can find the entire act on the web site. Note the
effective date in bold when the act was modified to include regulation of
software Engr firms.
Celeste Haseltine, PE
Project Manager, Check Web Integration Services
Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
celeste.haseltine at dal.frb.org
214.922.6518 (office)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
§ 1001.057. Employee of Private Corporation or Business Entity
(d) For purposes of this section, "products manufactured by the entity"
also includes computer software, firmware, hardware, semiconductor
devices, and the production, exploration, and transportation of oil and gas
and related products.
Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, § 1, eff. June 1, 2003. Amended
78th Leg, SB 277, eff. September 1, 2003.
§133.13 Branches of Engineering
Applicants shall indicate a primary branch of engineering under which
experience has been gained. The Board recognizes the following
list of disciplines to assist in determining an applicant's competency
although license holders are not designated as a specific discipline
engineer nor are restricted to practice only in the branch designated. The
Board recognized branches are listed below. Those branches in
which a National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES)
examination is offered are followed by the acronym
(NCEES).
(1) (AGR) agricultural (NCEES);
(2) (BAR) architectural (NCEES);
(3) (CHE) chemical (NCEES);
(4) (CIV) civil (NCEES);
(5) (CSE) control systems (NCEES);
(6) (ELE) electrical, electronic, computer, communications (NCEES);
(7) (ENV) environmental (NCEES);
(8) (FIR) fire protection (NCEES);
(9) (IND) industrial (NCEES);
Texas Engineering Practice Act and Rules ~ Page 40 of 73
(10) (MEC) mechanical (NCEES);
(11) (MIN) mining/mineral (NCEES);
(12) (MET) metallurgical (NCEES);
(13) (MAN) manufacturing;
(14) (NUC) nuclear (NCEES);
(15) (PET) petroleum (NCEES);
(16) (SDE) naval architecture/marine engineering (NCEES);
(17) (STR) structural (NCEES);
(18) (A/A) aeronautical/aerospace;
(19) (BIO) biomedical;
(20) (CRM) ceramic;
(21) (ESG) engineering sciences/general;
(22) (GEO) geological;
(23) (OCE) ocean;
(24) (TEX) textile;
(25) (SAN) sanitary;
(26) (SWE) software;
§137.33 Sealing Procedures
(f) License holders shall affix an unobscured seal and original signature
with date or electronic signature as prescribed in §137.35 of this
chapter to the originals of all documents containing the final version of
any engineering work before such work is released from their
control, including the original title sheet of bound engineering reports,
specifications, details, calculations or estimates, and each original
sheet of plans or drawings regardless of size or binding. All other
engineering work, including but not limited to research reports, opinions,
recommendations, evaluations, addenda, documents produced for litigation,
and engineering software shall bear the engineer's printed
name, date, signature and the designation "P.E." or other terms as
described in §137.1 of this chapter (relating to License Holder
Designations).
A seal may be added on such work if required or at the engineer's
discretion. Electronic correspondence of this type shall be
followed by a hard copy containing the engineer's printed name, date,
signature and the designation "P.E." or other terms as described in
§137.1 of this chapter (relating to License Holder Designations).
"Kin Hui"
<kinhui at nortelnetworks.com To:
> cc: JavaMug
Sent by: <javamug at utdallas.edu>,
javamug-bounce at utdallas.ed javamug-bounce at utdallas.edu
u Subject: [javamug] Re:
software engineer?
07/29/2004 12:49 PM
:)
Err... attack of the clone?
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/s/so/software_engineering.html
"Donald Bagart of Texas became the first professional software engineer in
the U.S. on September 4, 1998 or October 9, 1998"
Which side is the clone? :)
--Kin.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Owen [mailto:jameso at kbsc.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:23 AM
To: Shawn Fitzgerald
Cc: Celeste.Haseltine at dal.frb.org; Shannon Looper; JavaMug;
javamug-bounce at utdallas.edu
Subject: [javamug] Re: software engineer?
Again, PE refers ONLY to Engineering disciplines, not to software geeks.
You CANNOT get a PE license for Software Engineering. The fines apply only
to someone practicing EE, ME, CE, etc., not to software geeks. My brother
is a PE. I am an EE but not a PE and I am a Senior Software Engineer or a
Senior Software Engineer. We, the software industry, do not have a
governing board per se.
SDG
jco
Shawn Fitzgerald wrote:
*** From javamug -- To unsubscribe, see the end of this message. ***
However it should be noted that "Software" engineers are not covered by
this organization.
So can they fine you? I doubt it because they do not have the right to
regulate this industry
of "software" development. They are only charged with the licensing and
enforcement for
electrical/structural/material type industries. If they were to try and
fine you or take you
to court is would be for the reason that they control the word "engineer".
I don't know of a
judge that could keep a straight face when they argue that point.
And while one might think this is a government agency please note that it
is a tx.us domain
and I do not know of any ICANN regulation process to ensure that
state.tx.us must be a
government agency. I would call this organization, and ask because as
with most government
charged organizations there are lots of words but no information on their
site.
While I truely wish there was an organization that was charged with the
licensing of programmers
for the title of "software engineer" so that we could verify the quality of
an individuals
knowledge. Sadly we must take SE's at face value by their resume, and
certifications.
Bottomline, titles don't spend, you can call me ishmael, or a bytecode
sanitation worker
for all I care, just pay me a decent rate. ;)
Let us know what you find out.
-Shawn
----- Original Message -----
From: Celeste.Haseltine at dal.frb.org
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:55:04 -0500
To: "Shannon Looper" <shannon at loopermain.com>
Subject: [javamug] Re: software engineer?
Shannon,
Technically yes. Should someone file a complaint with the board,
specifically stating that you are practicing Software Engr without a
license in TX, you could end up with a fine of up to $10,000 and a court
order barring you from practicing Engr until such time you took the EIT
and P&P exams, and were officially granted a license by the board.
Software Engineering was recognized officially by the Texas Board of
Registration back in 1999 I believe (it may have been as late as 2000).
It's been a while since I visited the website for the Board, but you can
find more information regarding the regulations and how they relate to
licensing and regulating the practice of software engr in TXat
http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/. You can also call them to obtain more
information.
Celeste Haseltine, PE
Project Manager, Check Web Integration Services
Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
celeste.haseltine at dal.frb.org
214.922.6518 (office)
"Shannon Looper" <shannon at loopermain.com>
Sent by: javamug-bounce at utdallas.edu
07/28/2004 08:41 PM
Please respond to "Shannon Looper"
To: "JavaMug" <javamug at utdallas.edu>
cc:
Subject: [javamug] software engineer?
Does anyone know if it's illegal for me to have my job title of Software
Engineer on by business card as a W2 employee? I do not have a PE
license.
Thanks,
Shannon
Let's play monopoly..You be Microsloth and I'll be SouthernBell.
--
SDG
jco
Note: Please change my email address to jco at kbsc.com - I seem to get 500+
junk emails everyday so, for the next 30-45 days I'll check both but,
eventually, I'll turn off the jameso at kbsc.com that I have had since about
1985. It seems to be on the mailing list of everyone, including some of
the grossest porno sites. <sigh> Thanks.
More information about the Discuss
mailing list