[NTLUG:Discuss] Mac v. Linux

[Chris Cox]

jpmiller at quorumhost.com wrote:
> solaris?? I'm trying to decide if you're flaming, kidding, or if I should
> actually respond...
> 
> Sun is a dying company... has been for years, if you don't believe me, check the

Sun is having difficulty.  But they aren't stupid.

> stock market.  The only thing keeping solaris alive is Fujitsu, and they have GE
> level resources, so they'll be around for a while.  But the Japanese are smart,
> when nobody cares anymore that they can beat Sun on performance for like 80% of
> the price, they'll quit doing the solaris R&D for Sun.
> 
> Sun may be around for a while... but they are pricey and the market is
> tolerating that less every year... the move to amd workstations is a good move
> for them to keep costs in control, but they still put out a very expensive box,
> and I've seen steady detorating demand for that.

It is a fact that Sun is an enemy of Linux.  Sun's once enemy,
Microsoft, has now banded together with Sun in an attempt to deliver
a corporate business knock-out punch.... the in depth partnership
between Sun and Microsoft is for 10 years (but I think we're closer to
only 9 yearsremaining now).  The first fruits were in the form of Sun's
AMD platform which is WHQL certified (that is... certified to run
Windows).  Sun's AMD line (soon to be upgraded with their Galaxy class
release) is the ONLY platform certified to run Windows, Linux and
Solaris.  Regardless of the future of Solaris... Sun's engineering on
their lines are equal to if not better than HP (which is about 3 times
as well engineered as Dell on the server side).

Most of you know I own a w2100z Sun Java (sic) Workstation.  Of course
mine runs Linux.  I'll gladly consider a different platform if you
can show me a dual AMD 250 with 4G memory, 1x73G U320 SCSI and a Quadro
3000 for less than $2500.  Is that priced agressively enough?  Earlier
this year I saw them going in that exact configuration for about $1800
a piece(!!).  Mine is just a lowly dual AMD 246 with 2G and 1x73G SCSI,
and I bought that for $2000 (still a good deal, but not nearly as
good as the deal's Sun was recently making as they cleared out their
inventory of the old workstations).

I digress... my point is that NOBODY makes a more powerful machine
for the money.  If you disagree... please post.

Here's the specs for beating $2500:

Dual AMD 250 or better
4G Ram
2x73G U320 SCSI
Quadro 3000FX
5 USB 2.0
2 Firewire
Onboard Audio
DVD/CDRW
(motherboard supports IDE/SATA and dual channel U320 SCSI.
also has 1 64-bit PCI-X/133 and 4 64-bit PCI-X/100 and 1 32-bit PCI)

Please, I beg of you, find this for $2500 and post where/who.


> 
> linux may have some ground to cover still, but several of the distro's are
> already solid enough to be taken seriously and in a far better position to be
> that 3rd OS than solaris (isn't sun just as happy to run linux as they are
> solaris on their opteron workstations?)

Solaris 10 for the first time in years, represents a fairly major leap
forward for Solaris (SVR4 based circa 1988).  A lot of that leap is
because of Linux pressure.  I'm not a huge Solaris fan.  However some
of their more embarassing mistakes have been elminated in Solaris 10.
Anything before that is a sad, sad, sad tale of "don't let this happen
to you".

Sun IS NOT supportive of Linux.. NO.. NONE.  The goal was
simply a stop gap measure.  Btw, so is the AMD thing.  AMD's design
suitably impressed Sun and fills in the enterprise for them with
a good x86 thing.  However, their flagship SPARC is continue to
evolve and their goal is to push extreme multi-core... they'll
push AMD as well... but they'll make sure the future SPARCs do
everything the AMD does and more.  JDS was alway intended to
be an interface design for Solaris not for Linux.

Solaris 10, doesn't make me a Sun fanboy, but I think it's a bit
premature to hammer in all the nails into the Sun coffin. Microsoft
has already made $10-20 million dollars of direct and indirect
investment in Sun.  Microsoft has money and needs a cooperative
ally (and so nicely as far as the "watchful" eye of our gov't),
an ally once position in direct competition with Microsoft.  Together
Sun and Microsoft will provide the best support Active Directory
to Unix integration system (duh).  This is like Samba and OpenLDAP
except that it will work better and actually be supported (from the
traditional non-free software perspective).

Don't count Sun out... and remember that there is NO difference
betweeen talking to Sun and talking to Microsoft.

Sun and Microsoft's primary goal over this 10 year treaty is to
desimate Linux in the enterprise (perceived to be Red Hat).
Once the 10 year period is over, I fully expect Sun and Microsoft
to go back to the corners and prepare for the final showdown.
I like to think of it as the "Highlander"... you can befriend
another immortal, but eventually the quickening will bring
you together... for there can only be one.

(of course this is only true if they are successful in kicking
Linux out of the corporate enterprise... giggle)

Things to look for from Sun over the next year or so...

1. Better AMD designs.
2. Better SPARCs.
3. Extreme multicores.
4. Heterogenous blade units.
5. Low, low power consumption.

This is a lot of crystal ball, but based on some of the
more trustworthy information sources out there (I actually
know what's coming out... but I'm under NDA).

Sun's worst enemy is themselves.  It is well known
that the first fruits of the Sun+Microsoft relationship
took a whole lot longer than what was expected (I'm talking
about their identify mgmt integration, not the HW thing).
As these two get comfortable with each other, things should
speed up.  Also, it is a well known fact that there is
a  bit of an AMD vs. SPARC problem at Sun.. although
they'll vehemently deny this.  Sun is certainly playing
the field and their message lacks consistency right
now (they seem to be all over the map).  It's up to
Sun to make everthing successful at Sun.  They're decision
to side with Microsoft and they're decision to attack
Linux in the workplace are also examples of where
Sun is making some tactical mistakes.

I don't have much to say on the Apple front.  Their move
took me by surprise.  I think it may actually be
the death of Apple.... we'll see.

Sorry about the long message... but I think news of Sun's
death has been slightly exaggerated.... I'd given them
at least 5 more years before I'll hammer in the last
nail. :)

Chris