[NTLUG:Discuss] AN APOLOGY to NTLUG...

Tue Jan 3 21:53:23 CST 2006

Thomas,

Clearly you were not involved in the early days of trying to get the LSB 
and a certification standard built. If you had been you would understand 
RedHat gives great lip service to supporting standards but gives little 
actual support and indeed has gone to great lengths to slow down or 
stall actual community development of anything except the RedHat way. 
You say "But Red Hat works with the community to build de jure 
standards.  Red Hat does not nefariously enforce its will on the 
universe.". I'd have to say you are correct RedHat does not "nefariously 
enforce its will on the universe", they simply give great lip service 
and by doing so have slowed down both the LPI and LSB and continue to do 
so even today.

They have been great supporters of hiring good people and that is a good 
thing, the bad is the focus on not supporting anything except what will 
lock customers to them. Yes publicly Dan Quinlan stated he believed 
RedHat was supporting the LSB, what was said in private by him and 
others attempting to build the LSB was quite a bit different.

The LSB would allow customers to switch between distributions easily, a 
more generic certification standard would make sure that a Linux 
sysadmin could do more then manage a RedHat installation. That could and 
would devalue RedHat business proposition. That was a non-starter for 
RedHat. RedHat is a great supporter of the Linux kernel and of it's own 
distribution, they are far less interested in supporting any Linux 
community standards that would devalue the RedHat business plan. I 
understand that, it is the American way, just don't pretend to support 
community standards and really slow them down.

In the early days RedHat was asked to participate in the LPI, SAIR too 
was approached to join in with the LPI. Both choose not to, one was able 
to carry it off, the other died away. LPI is still here, RedHat could 
still join them and help build a true community certification, the only 
thing stopping them is their own business plan and lack of dedication to 
a truly open and community based certification. If you visit the LPI web 
site you will note that RedHat is not a supporter at any level, odd if 
they were really interested in supporting the community. They were even 
offered ways to have the RedHat testing added to the LPI standards, 
nope, not for RedHat.

Wishing otherwise does not make it so. Sorry. The facts are in 
historical email, some of it private, which is too bad. Currently you 
are correct RedHat is the most popular enterprise distribution as such 
I'm sure they will continue to push the RedHat is Linux and Linux is 
RedHat line just as they always have. We are the standard.

I'm personally glad that LPI is still around and has garnered great 
support from other Linux supporters, those that can see a single 
commercial enterprise distribution would be a bad thing. LPI has slowly 
increased it's depth of certification, had RedHat jumped in early when 
they were asked to the LPI would be much further ahead.

Overall the LPI with it's volunteers from the community have done a 
great job, they continue to grow, more people take training that is 
based off the LPI requirements, pass the tests and get certified. The 
LPI is a great example of how a segment of the Linux community from 
around the world came together to build something useful to some, less 
to others. It's funny, I'm not certified, I don't have any desire to be, 
but I could see the value to some and I helped to support the early efforts.

I'm sure RedHat will continue to go it's own way, many will follow, 
believers in the RedHat way. I'll leave the rhetoric and false claims to 
  those who would prefer to rewrite history. Me? I don't really have an 
iron in the fire, I don't have anything to sell, no training, no 
certification, I don't have my own distro and I don't work for a Linux 
distro. Those that are interested can find more info by simply mining 
the Internet, there is a lot out there. I've too much to do in other 
directions, I'll shutup now.

Cheers,

David

Thomas Cameron wrote:
<snip>
> 
>>RedHat has a long history of fighting against a community certification 
>>standard and the Linux Standard Base (LSB). 
> 
> 
> Um, wrong.  Red Hat supports the LSB.  See
> http://www.businessworldindia.com/feb0204/news05.asp for a comment by
> Matthew Szulik in support of the LSB.  See
> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-03-23-002-09-PS for
> a quote from the head of the LSB project: "Daniel Quinlan, chairman of
> the LSB's steering committee, said he believes Red Hat fully supports
> the effort."
> 
> There are serious problems with the LSB.  It is not perfect.  But Red
> Hat is working with the community because it's the right thing to do.
> You'll find that this is a common sentiment at Red Hat.
> 
> 
>>It's not in their interest, 
>>if they can convince the world that they are the "standard" in 
>>certification and the "standard Linux" they can lock in more businesses.
> 
> 
> Well, I'm not about to say that as a commercial enterprise Red Hat
> doesn't want more business.  It just so happens that they have the best
> certification program out there.  It also happens that Red Hat is used
> in the vast majority of enterprise Linux deployments (depending on your
> source, around 90%).  It is perfectly accurate to say that they are the
> most commonly used enterprise Linux, so it might be said that Red Hat is
> the de facto standard for Linux in the enterprise.  But Red Hat works
> with the community to build de jure standards.  Red Hat does not
> nefariously enforce its will on the universe.
> 
> 
>>To not recognise these issues when talking about RedHat is to do a 
>>disservice to certifications and to the LSB standard efforts.
> 
> 
> Your arguments are factually incorrect.  Red Hat has built a very
> valuable certification program, and supports the LSB.
> 
> Instead of rhetoric and false claims, please come back with some facts.
> 
> Cheers,
> Thomas
> 
> DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  They
> do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> https://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

-- 
David Mandala <davidm at them dot com>
www.them.com/~davidm Public Key id: 45B2D952
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