[NTLUG:Discuss] AN APOLOGY to NTLUG...

[Thomas Cameron]

Wow.  Never mind the publicly available facts, I guess you know more
than anyone else.  There's just no arguing against the tinfoil hat
crowd.

Thomas

On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 21:53 -0600, David Mandala wrote:
> Thomas,
> 
> Clearly you were not involved in the early days of trying to get the LSB 
> and a certification standard built. If you had been you would understand 
> RedHat gives great lip service to supporting standards but gives little 
> actual support and indeed has gone to great lengths to slow down or 
> stall actual community development of anything except the RedHat way. 
> You say "But Red Hat works with the community to build de jure 
> standards.  Red Hat does not nefariously enforce its will on the 
> universe.". I'd have to say you are correct RedHat does not "nefariously 
> enforce its will on the universe", they simply give great lip service 
> and by doing so have slowed down both the LPI and LSB and continue to do 
> so even today.
> 
> They have been great supporters of hiring good people and that is a good 
> thing, the bad is the focus on not supporting anything except what will 
> lock customers to them. Yes publicly Dan Quinlan stated he believed 
> RedHat was supporting the LSB, what was said in private by him and 
> others attempting to build the LSB was quite a bit different.
> 
> The LSB would allow customers to switch between distributions easily, a 
> more generic certification standard would make sure that a Linux 
> sysadmin could do more then manage a RedHat installation. That could and 
> would devalue RedHat business proposition. That was a non-starter for 
> RedHat. RedHat is a great supporter of the Linux kernel and of it's own 
> distribution, they are far less interested in supporting any Linux 
> community standards that would devalue the RedHat business plan. I 
> understand that, it is the American way, just don't pretend to support 
> community standards and really slow them down.
> 
> In the early days RedHat was asked to participate in the LPI, SAIR too 
> was approached to join in with the LPI. Both choose not to, one was able 
> to carry it off, the other died away. LPI is still here, RedHat could 
> still join them and help build a true community certification, the only 
> thing stopping them is their own business plan and lack of dedication to 
> a truly open and community based certification. If you visit the LPI web 
> site you will note that RedHat is not a supporter at any level, odd if 
> they were really interested in supporting the community. They were even 
> offered ways to have the RedHat testing added to the LPI standards, 
> nope, not for RedHat.
> 
> Wishing otherwise does not make it so. Sorry. The facts are in 
> historical email, some of it private, which is too bad. Currently you 
> are correct RedHat is the most popular enterprise distribution as such 
> I'm sure they will continue to push the RedHat is Linux and Linux is 
> RedHat line just as they always have. We are the standard.
> 
> I'm personally glad that LPI is still around and has garnered great 
> support from other Linux supporters, those that can see a single 
> commercial enterprise distribution would be a bad thing. LPI has slowly 
> increased it's depth of certification, had RedHat jumped in early when 
> they were asked to the LPI would be much further ahead.
> 
> Overall the LPI with it's volunteers from the community have done a 
> great job, they continue to grow, more people take training that is 
> based off the LPI requirements, pass the tests and get certified. The 
> LPI is a great example of how a segment of the Linux community from 
> around the world came together to build something useful to some, less 
> to others. It's funny, I'm not certified, I don't have any desire to be, 
> but I could see the value to some and I helped to support the early efforts.
> 
> I'm sure RedHat will continue to go it's own way, many will follow, 
> believers in the RedHat way. I'll leave the rhetoric and false claims to 
>   those who would prefer to rewrite history. Me? I don't really have an 
> iron in the fire, I don't have anything to sell, no training, no 
> certification, I don't have my own distro and I don't work for a Linux 
> distro. Those that are interested can find more info by simply mining 
> the Internet, there is a lot out there. I've too much to do in other 
> directions, I'll shutup now.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David
> 
> Thomas Cameron wrote:
> <snip>
> > 
> >>RedHat has a long history of fighting against a community certification 
> >>standard and the Linux Standard Base (LSB). 
> > 
> > 
> > Um, wrong.  Red Hat supports the LSB.  See
> > http://www.businessworldindia.com/feb0204/news05.asp for a comment by
> > Matthew Szulik in support of the LSB.  See
> > http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-03-23-002-09-PS for
> > a quote from the head of the LSB project: "Daniel Quinlan, chairman of
> > the LSB's steering committee, said he believes Red Hat fully supports
> > the effort."
> > 
> > There are serious problems with the LSB.  It is not perfect.  But Red
> > Hat is working with the community because it's the right thing to do.
> > You'll find that this is a common sentiment at Red Hat.
> > 
> > 
> >>It's not in their interest, 
> >>if they can convince the world that they are the "standard" in 
> >>certification and the "standard Linux" they can lock in more businesses.
> > 
> > 
> > Well, I'm not about to say that as a commercial enterprise Red Hat
> > doesn't want more business.  It just so happens that they have the best
> > certification program out there.  It also happens that Red Hat is used
> > in the vast majority of enterprise Linux deployments (depending on your
> > source, around 90%).  It is perfectly accurate to say that they are the
> > most commonly used enterprise Linux, so it might be said that Red Hat is
> > the de facto standard for Linux in the enterprise.  But Red Hat works
> > with the community to build de jure standards.  Red Hat does not
> > nefariously enforce its will on the universe.
> > 
> > 
> >>To not recognise these issues when talking about RedHat is to do a 
> >>disservice to certifications and to the LSB standard efforts.
> > 
> > 
> > Your arguments are factually incorrect.  Red Hat has built a very
> > valuable certification program, and supports the LSB.
> > 
> > Instead of rhetoric and false claims, please come back with some facts.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Thomas
> > 
> > DISCLAIMER:  The opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  They
> > do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer.
> > 
> > 
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