[NTLUG:Discuss] I hate IcedTea

[Christopher Cox]

On 06/04/2013 12:57 AM, Leroy Tennison wrote:
> <Rant> I understand the desire for open source alternatives to proprietary
> technology but they have to work...  A recent OpenSuse update stopped a working
> IcedTea configuration to my corporate network and I really need that connection
> right now. </Rant>

Java, even from Sunoracle is a HUGE roll of the die.

In fact, just mentioning Oracle should send chills down your spine.  While I
realize that there is a vast majority of people and systems out there that are
Java dependent, that doesn't make the risk any less in my book.

In fact, your example sort of proves the point.

So, beware of anything Java.  It might not work tomorrow.  If you keep that in
mind, you'll probably be ok.

Java never really delivered on the promise that arguably makes it so popular
today.  The idea of a cross platform execution environment.  With Java, you
can't even say that what you create today, using "official" classes will work
with the next minor release of Java (and I'm talking about the sub-sub release
level).... and that's on the SAME platform, much less across platforms.

Also, Java is a full execution environment (because of its desired goal of being
truly cross platform) which means that it cannot benefit from OS and/or platform
specifics in many circumstances, which means it's weighty because it has to
reinvent many things that are commonplace on good OS's.

Thus when a major problem happens in a core OS library, there are times when
there will have to be a major corresponding patch to Java as well.

In a two OS world, which it's pretty much become... these problems with Java
make it less and less desirable.  Arguably, on the more important server (e.g.
services) side of the fence, it's pretty much a one horse show, and that horse
is quasi-dead horse to Sunoracle (that is, any Linux distro besides their own
proprietary twisted Red Hat fork).

With that said, in a server/services based world, nobody really cares what you
are running underneath the covers.  And again, the idea that Java has to be at
the core, becomes the "poor choice"... again, due to who owns the technology in
particular.

Perhaps one the of the biggest reasons for it staying around is because of IBM.
 I blame IBM for many of the technology lunacies around today.  Big blue is
probably the direct opposite of what most people think.  Beware.

HP got their wake up call when Oracle stabbed them in the back.  Not saying they
don't still have a lot of Java investment, but when you get stabbed the way they
did, you don't forget it...

Now... what about Android.  Obviously at its hard is Google's bastard Java
child.  So.. that's potentially a lot of installed Java badness.... but really
it's a bastard "virtual machine (byte code engine)"... so maybe that's not that
big of a deal.  We already know that Google has their own language thing
going... so again, they probably saw the light without getting stabbed.

Stuff to chew on.

Many, if not most, people will disagree with me.  And that's fine.  Just
remember, to love Java, you really have to place your whole trust in Sunoracle.
 Just saying...  Or like Google, you end up creating something that's really
outside of the eco-system...  because you don't necessarily care about anybody
except yourself.

Oracle isn't that different from HP and Dell, etc... in that they obviously fear
IBM greatly and believe that they only way to "win" is by acquiring a myriad of
technologies that .. in all fairness... IBM sort of "wants" them to acquire (the
burden of acquisitions).  In Oracle's situation you have no fewer than three
internally competing products surround J2EE application servers (OAS, Weblogic
and Glassfish).  Maybe it explains some of Oracle's insane behavior?  It's
enough to make anyone go nuts!

Arguably IBM has some similar internal competing problems...IBM's just a bit
harsher internally.  Eventually, they do pick a winner and smash the loser...
IBM is used to ticking people off... they get away with it daily... and ticking
off their own is always preferable... which may be why they are "winning" (?)

IBM banked on Java because they wanted to totally dominate it.  And if Sunoracle
keeps going the direction they are going, this could simply be a long term bet
on IBM's part.  Because they certainly could have purchased Sun.  So maybe they
figured they could kill two birds with one stone and eventually "acquire"
Oracle.... which will be easier and easier as Oracle gradually bleeds to death.
 Only time will tell (and it's a very LONG term bet).

With that said, one could easily argue that IBM has probably 100x more
dependency on Java than anyone else in the world.. which means, if they can't
wait for Oracle to die, they may simply force the issue if they perceive too
much risk there... (remember IBM is a HUGE patent house).

More stuff that might be entertaining:
http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/06/05/oracle-customers-must-consider-all-available-options/

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/06/05/dell-and-oracle-expand-alliance.aspx

http://readwrite.com/2013/06/03/oracle-adds-more-jolt-to-java-security-procedures

http://www.infoworld.com/t/java-programming/java-out-of-the-spotlight-still-spry-220129

http://www.infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/computer-scientists-oppose-oracles-bid-copyright-java-apis-219728

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/oracles-java-changes-too-little-too-late-118025?ModPagespeed=noscript

http://www.zdnet.com/making-sure-your-java-isnt-a-load-of-old-rubbish-7000015462/